Merseyside policeman struck and killed by stolen vehicle.
Discussion
Sheepshanks said:
This seems to be a gross failure of management. In a world where police officers can't do all manner of things for health & safety reasons who on earth thought putting them unprotected in front of stolen vehicles was a good idea?
It won't have much to do with the management. If someone is coordinating resources / the tactics (which may even be someone of the same rank), they may have asked the resource go to a specific location. It's then down to the individual to make a risk assessment to ensure a safe deployment. La Liga said:
t won't have much to do with the management. If someone is coordinating resources / the tactics (which may even be someone of the same rank), they may have asked the resource go to a specific location. It's then down to the individual to make a risk assessment to ensure a safe deployment.
Thanks. We could continue the point but at the moment I'd like to leave it there.It is a tragedy. Two kids have lost their father and a woman has lost her partner in life. Things will never be the same for them.
We obviously do know what happened in this case. A man, husband and father lost his life.
Sheepshanks said:
We don't know that happened in this case.
This seems to be a gross failure of management.
Irony recognition courses available for those who struggle with simple concepts.This seems to be a gross failure of management.
We obviously do know what happened in this case. A man, husband and father lost his life.
dmitsi said:
Quite why those idiots didn't just jump on the first plane to the EU I will never know.. They are going down for a long long time (rightfully so)Derek Smith said:
It is a tragedy. Two kids have lost their father and a woman has lost her partner in life. Things will never be the same for them.
We obviously do know what happened in this case. A man, husband and father lost his life.
You replaced "that" with "what". And connected two separate points.Sheepshanks said:
We don't know that happened in this case.
This seems to be a gross failure of management.
Irony recognition courses available for those who struggle with simple concepts.This seems to be a gross failure of management.
We obviously do know what happened in this case. A man, husband and father lost his life.
Greendubber said:
Great news on the arrests
Indeed it is.However, how many times have we seen the sensationalist headlines - "Police Treating as Murder", "Will be charging with murder"
Only for it to be later downgraded to careless driving and manslaughter or some such.
I can't help feeling that this does little for the grieving families who no doubt hope for justice, only to see it apparently watered down.
La Liga said:
agtlaw said:
Will each say the other was driving?
Probably if you represent them 
joe_90 said:
Quite why those idiots didn't just jump on the first plane to the EU I will never know.. They are going down for a long long time (rightfully so)
If they're guilty then about 20 years in the least nice prison we have sounds about right.I'd prefer them to have a fair trial before you pronounce their guilt, though.
Thoughts are for the family at this time.
over_the_hill said:
Would they use some sort of Joint Enterprise approach ?
It's complex and obviously we have very superficial circumstances. I would doubt it as the passenger would have to have foreseen the driver would commit the crime, or assisted or encouraged him to do so. That's assuming they figure out who was the driver and caused the death.
If they cannot establish who was driving and if there is no evidence that points to one over the other (and they didn't act in concert) then they must be acquitted in terms of joint enterprise, and doubt this type of JI would be suitable for this offence.
Practically, I expect it will come down to murder / manslaughter (perhaps even death by dangerous driving?) in the long run. I doubt the driver has gone out to kill a police officer (as opposed to committing the burglary), so the time frame for proving the relevant intent for it to be murder is likely to be small. The other officer's evidence is going to be key in terms of inferring what the intention was e.g. did the vehicle change direction to drive at the officer etc.
Great news on the arrests, I await the trial verdict.
Surely some of the incident examination will be able to show any deviation in course, attempts to break etc. that should support a murder charge. There may not have been an intent / premeditation to kill but sure some level of recklessness could be shown. A manslaughter conviction would still allow a life sentence based on circumstances.
Surely some of the incident examination will be able to show any deviation in course, attempts to break etc. that should support a murder charge. There may not have been an intent / premeditation to kill but sure some level of recklessness could be shown. A manslaughter conviction would still allow a life sentence based on circumstances.
Strange as it sounds, you don't have to be the driver (or driving) to be guilty of causing death by dangerous driving. If there's any doubt about who was driving then charge them both with the section 1 offence? 14 year maximum.
e.g.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/71385...
e.g.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/crime/71385...
Edited by agtlaw on Tuesday 6th October 17:01
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