University degree required to join the police

[Eclassy]

I do not agree with prospective recruits being asked to have a degree in policing unless of course the govt wants to fund it 100%. There is absolutely nothing wrong with requiring a conversion course after a normal degree has been obtained.

We are always told that minorities don't apply to join the service. PCSO make up shows that is simply propaganda. Or how else do you explain the large representation of minorities in the PCSO rank. I find it unbelievable that minorities, older people and women will happily apply to join the less paying, less glamorous, less respected PCSO roles but not PC roles.

[Derek Smith]

Eclassy said:

We are always told that minorities don't apply to join the service. PCSO make up shows that is simply propaganda. Or how else do you explain the large representation of minorities in the PCSO rank. I find it unbelievable that minorities, older people and women will happily apply to join the less paying, less glamorous, less respected PCSO roles but not PC roles.

Wow! Now there's a post.

Where does one start? Probably best to ask what the actual percentages of ethnic minorities are in the various jobs, maybe to suggest that perhaps a high percentage of PCSOs are there as a way into the regular forces, perhaps by mentioning that what you find unbelievable is explainable by looking at the differences between the roles of the two jobs: PCSO and police officer. They are so different that you'd think they should be given different names.

[anonymous-user]

The PCSO role is relativity new and started from a point where the police are a lot more reflective of society, where as the role of a Constable is slower to turnover as a lot of the staff will be from times where fewer minorities were recruited.

It's pretty obvious the proportion will be different at the moment.

[Devil2575]

I sometimes think that 90% of the stuff that people post on PH is just made up with no facts to back it up whatsoever.

[V8 Fettler]

La Liga said:

V8 Fettler said:

If it makes sense then it's more likely to be true, although alternative views should not be discounted.

It has to make sense, but we have to be careful as to how much weight we assign to something in which we have limited information. 'Associative coherence' makes us overconfident in our conclusions because something makes sense to us. A chap named Daniel Kahneman, considered to be the greatest living psychologist, figured this out.

It certainly is human nature to channel a problem solving process, particularly into familiar territory; which brings us back to the need to get out of the bunker. I think that's probably enough already!

[DBRacingGod]

People become PCSOs rather than PCs for lots of reasons, including:

• Larger starting salary than a PC
• No nights
• Vigorously protected O/T
• No pre-entry requirements (CKP etc)

and, I imagine, because they like helping people and serving the community.
Out of interest, what job do you do Eclassy? You may have said once upon a time, I don't recall.

[anonymous-user]

V8 Fettler said:

I think that's probably enough already!

Agreed.

DBRacingGod said:

People become PCSOs rather than PCs for lots of reasons, including:

• Larger starting salary than a PC
• No nights
• Vigorously protected O/T
• No pre-entry requirements (CKP etc)

and, I imagine, because they like helping people and serving the community.
Out of interest, what job do you do Eclassy? You may have said once upon a time, I don't recall.

Protected meal breaks Ok, they aren't paid for them.

[Eclassy]

All new police constables in the MPS will receive a basic starting salary of £22,221 per annum rising to £36,885. All new constables will commence service at the start of the scale and will progress according to relevant Home Office guidelines and police regulations.
In addition to basic salary all Metropolitan Police officers receive London weighting and allowances currently amounting to approximately £6,615 per annum.

PCSO Basic salary ranges from £21,709 to £24,555. You may then be entitled to an additional shift disturbance allowance of 12.5%, 15% or 20%, depending on your shift pattern. And you’ll also receive a location allowance – currently £3,501 (inner zone) or £1,902 (outer zone).

New PC: £22,200 (rising to £36,885) + £6,600 (London weighting) = £28,900. Free travel on TfL services.

New PCSO - £21,700 (rising to £24,500) + £3,500 (inner zone) + £4,400 (20% shift allowance - evenings/nights/weekends?) = £29,600. Free travel on London buses.

So you want me to believe that minorities and older people apply to become PCSOs because they may earn £600 more than a PC. Bear in mind that the PCSOs who will earn the amount calculated above will be doing way more unsocial hours than the average PC and will spend a fortune commuting into the inner zones. This £600 difference will probably only be for the 1st year as well.

I call BS. Please look for another spin.

[XCP]

Don't forget that the life of a PCSO is a lot easier than that of a PC. And the deductions from earnings for pension etc, are a lot less.

[Derek Smith]

Eclassy said:

So you want me to believe that minorities and older people apply to become PCSOs because they may earn £600 more than a PC. Bear in mind that the PCSOs who will earn the amount calculated above will be doing way more unsocial hours than the average PC and will spend a fortune commuting into the inner zones. This £600 difference will probably only be for the 1st year as well.

I call BS. Please look for another spin.

That's quite an attack, calling the suggestion BS and spin. That is especially so when the chap, quite clearly said (my bold):

DBRacingGod said:

People become PCSOs rather than PCs for lots of reasons, including:

• Larger starting salary than a PC
• No nights
• Vigorously protected O/T
• No pre-entry requirements (CKP etc)

and, I imagine, because they like helping people and serving the community.
Out of interest, what job do you do Eclassy? You may have said once upon a time, I don't recall.

In other words, although only slightly other as the message was quite clear, there are a number of reasons, so the suggestion that the £600 alone is what convinces them is wrong.

XCP has put a point of view very clearly as well.

Further, there is a lot more responsibility with the role of warranted officer. There are actions which, had they been committed by a PCSO would not be criminal but if it was a constable it would render the officer liable to prosecution.

One aspect which is, I know from friends still in the service, not only irritating but damaging to domestic life, is the fact that officers can be messed around with no notice. Can be called back from holiday without right to full compensation (although the force does treat the regs with a certain degree of flexibility).

Edited by Derek Smith on Tuesday 8th December 20:39

[Eclassy]

XCP said:

Don't forget that the life of a PCSO is a lot easier than that of a PC. And the deductions from earnings for pension etc, are a lot less.

It sure is. They don't really do much and have to call on real cops to deal with the more demanding stuff.

I just find it hard to believe that all these minorities and older people are only applying for the less prestigious, less rewarding job of a PCSO.

I personally know 2 former PCSOs (ethnic minorities) who wanted to be PCs but had to settle for PCSO roles.

[Elroy Blue]

Eclassy said:

It sure is. They don't really do much and have to call on real cops to deal with the more demanding stuff.

I just find it hard to believe that all these minorities and older people are only applying for the less prestigious, less rewarding job of a PCSO.

I personally know 2 former PCSOs (ethnic minorities) who wanted to be PCs but had to settle for PCSO roles.

You would wouldn't you. Pulled right out of your bottomless basket of 'mates'. Jackanory has got nothing on you.

[Eclassy]

Elroy Blue said:

You would wouldn't you. Pulled right out of your bottomless basket of 'mates'. Jackanory has got nothing on you.

Don't hate the playa, hate the game. It isnt my fault that I get out more than you do. Get a life plonker. I don't usually have time for old losers like yourself but I have the day off tomorrow.

Bring it on old man!

[carinaman]

I know a PCSO of an ethnic minority that became a PC.

In the past weren't some applicants to become PC told to go away and get some life experience and reapply? Being a PCSO would be one way of getting that experience and getting paid?

Making the PC a graduate entry job will mean many applicants that have done school and a degree course and may not have much useful life experience?

[Elroy Blue]

Eclassy said:

Don't hate the playa, hate the game. It isnt my fault that I get out more than you do. Get a life plonker. I don't usually have time for old losers like yourself but I have the day off tomorrow.

Bring it on old man!

You seem to get out with lots of mates that get arrested and then done over by those nasty, corrupt Police.

Or you could just have a vivid imagination.

[anonymous-user]

Eclassy said:

I just find it hard to believe that all these minorities and older people are only applying for the less prestigious, less rewarding job of a PCSO.

I've already explained the disparity.

[DBRacingGod]

Eclassy said:

All new police constables in the MPS will receive a basic starting salary of £22,221 per annum rising to £36,885. All new constables will commence service at the start of the scale and will progress according to relevant Home Office guidelines and police regulations.
In addition to basic salary all Metropolitan Police officers receive London weighting and allowances currently amounting to approximately £6,615 per annum.

PCSO Basic salary ranges from £21,709 to £24,555. You may then be entitled to an additional shift disturbance allowance of 12.5%, 15% or 20%, depending on your shift pattern. And you’ll also receive a location allowance – currently £3,501 (inner zone) or £1,902 (outer zone).

New PC: £22,200 (rising to £36,885) + £6,600 (London weighting) = £28,900. Free travel on TfL services.

New PCSO - £21,700 (rising to £24,500) + £3,500 (inner zone) + £4,400 (20% shift allowance - evenings/nights/weekends?) = £29,600. Free travel on London buses.

So you want me to believe that minorities and older people apply to become PCSOs because they may earn £600 more than a PC. Bear in mind that the PCSOs who will earn the amount calculated above will be doing way more unsocial hours than the average PC and will spend a fortune commuting into the inner zones. This £600 difference will probably only be for the 1st year as well.

I call BS. Please look for another spin.

I actually asked a PCSO today. He was on duty outside my son's pre-school. I can get his number and email tomorrow if you like.
What do you do for a job?

[carinaman]

Sidestep the graduate student debt if you don't have a rich mummy and daddy and become a PCSO. Seems a no brainer.

[Mandalore]

^^^^^^^


So...

How many times HAVE you been questioned or cautioned by a PC or PCSO over something you did?

[Derek Smith]

La Liga said:

Eclassy said:

I just find it hard to believe that all these minorities and older people are only applying for the less prestigious, less rewarding job of a PCSO.

I've already explained the disparity.

When I was running a shift I had a PC with 18 years in the job who was imaginative, dependable, intelligent, brave, thorough, keen, empathetic and my biggest asset. If she'd passed the exams, as she was more than capable of doing, ironically holding a degree (teaching), she could have gone onto more 'prestigious' roles but liked what she was doing so much that she stayed 'just' a PC.

For your argument to succeed, even at a limited level, you would need everyone to have the same values. I don't know if I always felt this way, but prestige is ephemeral and a rather shallow target to aim for.