NSL - 60 or 70mph

[JonV8V]

Johnnytheboy said:

Sushifiend said:

I would say that 90% of drivers out there have no idea whether they are on a single or dual carriageway, nor do they care because they don't realise that different speed limits apply. As for that road sign consisting of a white disc with a black diagonal line through it - I'd say most have no clue what it means, let alone an understanding of this concept called "National Speed Limit".

They need to know:
- the difference between a single and dual carriageway
- that there is such a thing as a national speed limit
- that the national speed limit varies depending on the type of road AND the type of vehicle they are driving
- when the national speed limit applies
- what the actual limit is

There are far too many variables for the majority of people who drive only to get from A to B without any interest or enjoyment in the act of driving itself. You could say that people must know these things in order to pass their driving test, but in my experience this is one area where I think the vast majority are clueless. I'd bet any traffic cop would back me up on that assertion.

My speed awareness course brought this home - most people seemed to have no idea what speed limits applied where and to what vehicles.

I don't think it's difficult.

Ignore vehicle type for a min as for most it makes no difference.

It's not hard to spot something between you and oncoming traffic (Nsl is 60 or 70)
It's not hard to spot street lights or not (30 or Nsl)
Everything else has a number displayed

When does the time change the speed limit?

Not really much to remember and the odd exception to the above is pretty obvious

I would agree that a lot of people don't seem to know but the rules in themselves aren't that complicated for most drivers, and except for a few, those affected by vehicle type are professional drivers (eg lorry, tractors etc.)

[Sushifiend]

JonV8V said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Sushifiend said:

I would say that 90% of drivers out there have no idea whether they are on a single or dual carriageway, nor do they care because they don't realise that different speed limits apply. As for that road sign consisting of a white disc with a black diagonal line through it - I'd say most have no clue what it means, let alone an understanding of this concept called "National Speed Limit".

They need to know:
- the difference between a single and dual carriageway
- that there is such a thing as a national speed limit
- that the national speed limit varies depending on the type of road AND the type of vehicle they are driving
- when the national speed limit applies
- what the actual limit is

There are far too many variables for the majority of people who drive only to get from A to B without any interest or enjoyment in the act of driving itself. You could say that people must know these things in order to pass their driving test, but in my experience this is one area where I think the vast majority are clueless. I'd bet any traffic cop would back me up on that assertion.

My speed awareness course brought this home - most people seemed to have no idea what speed limits applied where and to what vehicles.

I don't think it's difficult.

Ignore vehicle type for a min as for most it makes no difference.

It's not hard to spot something between you and oncoming traffic (Nsl is 60 or 70)
It's not hard to spot street lights or not (30 or Nsl)
Everything else has a number displayed

When does the time change the speed limit?

Not really much to remember and the odd exception to the above is pretty obvious

I would agree that a lot of people don't seem to know but the rules in themselves aren't that complicated for most drivers, and except for a few, those affected by vehicle type are professional drivers (eg lorry, tractors etc.)

No, it's not difficult at all to spot these things, but it is difficult for many to understand what they're seeing and the significance of it. As above in the thread, most people if you ask them strongly believe that a dual carriageway is simply a road with two lanes in each direction. So seeing a central divider means nothing to them. They also forget about the street lights rule or don't know when to apply it. It's all too much for the average moron.

[ferrariF50lover]

What's the matter with you lot?

The NSL (the clue is in the name, it's the NATIONAL speed limit, ie the speed which applies in this nation) is 40mph.

[300bhp/ton]

T5R+ said:

NSL with 2 lanes in one direction and 2 in opposing with no physical barrier (or divide)

garyhun said:

60.

The clue is in the lack of road separation.

Do you actually get roads like this? Must be pretty rare, and I can't recall driving on one in 18 years of driving.

Only time I can recall multilane without any kind of separation or barrier, is in towns/built up areas and lower speed limits.

[Pwig]

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.338468,-2.407755...

A556, one of the busiest roads in the country. Was de-restricted, now 50mph.

[jshell]

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

[gavgavgav]

Waiting for someone to wade in to check the definition of a car now ....

[tapereel]

JonV8V said:

Johnnytheboy said:

Sushifiend said:

I would say that 90% of drivers out there have no idea whether they are on a single or dual carriageway, nor do they care because they don't realise that different speed limits apply. As for that road sign consisting of a white disc with a black diagonal line through it - I'd say most have no clue what it means, let alone an understanding of this concept called "National Speed Limit".

They need to know:
- the difference between a single and dual carriageway
- that there is such a thing as a national speed limit
- that the national speed limit varies depending on the type of road AND the type of vehicle they are driving
- when the national speed limit applies
- what the actual limit is

There are far too many variables for the majority of people who drive only to get from A to B without any interest or enjoyment in the act of driving itself. You could say that people must know these things in order to pass their driving test, but in my experience this is one area where I think the vast majority are clueless. I'd bet any traffic cop would back me up on that assertion.

My speed awareness course brought this home - most people seemed to have no idea what speed limits applied where and to what vehicles.

I don't think it's difficult.

Ignore vehicle type for a min as for most it makes no difference.

It's not hard to spot something between you and oncoming traffic (Nsl is 60 or 70)
It's not hard to spot street lights or not (30 or Nsl)
Everything else has a number displayed

When does the time change the speed limit?

Not really much to remember and the odd exception to the above is pretty obvious

I would agree that a lot of people don't seem to know but the rules in themselves aren't that complicated for most drivers, and except for a few, those affected by vehicle type are professional drivers (eg lorry, tractors etc.)

[TwigtheWonderkid]

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

Is it an NSL road, or is there a posted 60 limit?

[Nigel_O]

can you imagine what happens when non-locals are faced with this:-



Limits are well posted, but confusion is compounded by the fact that its a motorway and that the number of lanes in each direction is variable, dependent on the time of day

[BertBert]

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

I think we'd all recognise that as a normal NSL=60mph type A road. But technically it must be a dual carriageway.
Bert

[Sushifiend]

BertBert said:

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

I think we'd all recognise that as a normal NSL=60mph type A road. But technically it must be a dual carriageway.
Bert

It's one piece of tarmac, so single carriageway. Even if it were a dual carriageway, there's nothing in the rules that says a dual carriageway can't have a limit lower that 70 imposed upon it.

[VX Foxy]

Sushifiend said:

BertBert said:

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

I think we'd all recognise that as a normal NSL=60mph type A road. But technically it must be a dual carriageway.
Bert

It's one piece of tarmac, so single carriageway. Even if it were a dual carriageway, there's nothing in the rules that says a dual carriageway can't have a limit lower that 70 imposed upon it.

The division is a traffic island (may be another name for it) created for the junction. The road is not a dual carriage way.

[ModernAndy]

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

What is the length of the stretch of road which is divided like that?

[stargazer30]

VX Foxy said:

It's worrying that people with driving licenses don't know the answer to this.

It was the one thing I got wrong on my "been a naughty boy speed awareness course". Its easy to assume dual carriageway means 2 lanes rather than a physical divide between each side of the carriageway.

[JonV8V]

Pwig said:

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@53.338468,-2.407755...

A556, one of the busiest roads in the country. Was de-restricted, now 50mph.

And thankfully they're building a new road there as that one is a death trap even at 50.

[BertBert]

Sushifiend said:

It's one piece of tarmac, so single carriageway. Even if it were a dual carriageway, there's nothing in the rules that says a dual carriageway can't have a limit lower that 70 imposed upon it.

I see it differently, that looks to me to happily fall within the definition of central reservation

"(b) any permanent work (other than a traffic island) in the carriageway of a road, which separates the carriageway or, as the case may be, the part of the carriageway which is to be used by traffic moving in one direction from the carriageway or part of the carriageway which is to be used (whether at all times or at particular times only) by traffic moving in the other direction;"

[militantmandy]

Mr E said:

Has it become inherently safer with oncoming cars separated by a barrier?

Ummm, yes.

[ModernAndy]

BertBert said:

I see it differently, that looks to me to happily fall within the definition of central reservation

"(b) any permanent work (other than a traffic island) in the carriageway of a road, which separates the carriageway or, as the case may be, the part of the carriageway which is to be used by traffic moving in one direction from the carriageway or part of the carriageway which is to be used (whether at all times or at particular times only) by traffic moving in the other direction;"

I was thinking along similar lines hence why I asked how long it is but I get the feeling it wouldn't automatically make it a dual carriageway in the legal sense.

Here's a question; do dual carriageways need to have signs such as 'dual carriageway ahead' to legally be a dual carriageway or can motorists decide the speed limit for themselves based on the speed limit signs (could be a white circle with a black line), what's inbetween the carriageways, etc.? To put it another way, is it meant to just be common sense or do they have to be clearly marked?

[jshell]

ModernAndy said:

jshell said:

Interesting that this section of the A9 has a physical barrier but is covered by 60mph Average Speed Cameras... https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@56.5003075,-3.50984...

Surely some mistake, or can anyone explain?

What is the length of the stretch of road which is divided like that?

About 300m, NSL, not posted as 70mph. Prevents Northbound traffic turning right at the junction.