Unmarked trucks used by the police.
Discussion
You're probably too thick to notice this, but the drivers of busses and coaches don't habitually kill people they say that they can't see.
You, and you're vehicles, are the problem here- you keep killing people, and it'd be nice if you'd stop it.
But, as I said, I suspect the new generation of robotic vehicles will replace you all shortly, so you can keep on being bigoted goons- but you will no longer be able to kill people with your incompetence.
You, and you're vehicles, are the problem here- you keep killing people, and it'd be nice if you'd stop it.
But, as I said, I suspect the new generation of robotic vehicles will replace you all shortly, so you can keep on being bigoted goons- but you will no longer be able to kill people with your incompetence.
Dammit said:
You're probably too thick to notice this, but the drivers of busses and coaches don't habitually kill people they say that they can't see.
You, and you're vehicles, are the problem here- you keep killing people, and it'd be nice if you'd stop it.
But, as I said, I suspect the new generation of robotic vehicles will replace you all shortly, so you can keep on being bigoted goons- but you will no longer be able to kill people with your incompetence.
The only person who looks stupid here, is you. You, and you're vehicles, are the problem here- you keep killing people, and it'd be nice if you'd stop it.
But, as I said, I suspect the new generation of robotic vehicles will replace you all shortly, so you can keep on being bigoted goons- but you will no longer be able to kill people with your incompetence.
As with SO MANY threads and posts of this ilk, the driving force behind the derogatory comments is foolish snobbishness and a misplaced feeling of superiority - you believe that you're better than 'lorry drivers'.
You aren't better than me, you clearly aren't better educated: I am probably taller and better looking than you, went to a better school, university and I will wager that my father's house was larger than your father's.
So, having debunked your f
k-witted prejudice what, if anything, do you have left with which to argue?I'm not arguing with you - I'm stating fact.
Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
Dammit said:
I'm not arguing with you - I'm stating fact.
Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
You are an imbecile. Keep away from lorries on the road as much as possible. Never ride down their nearside under any circumstances and be aware that you will always come off worst even when you were in the right. With this in mind be aware as you ride into vulnerable positions.Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
Also, don't have children.
GC8 your wasting your breath with the lycra clad muppet.
He is right and we are all wrong.
He is the sort of person that would pick his nose, scratch his hole then pick up a hand full
of nibbles on the bar without washing his hands.
The bloke who pisses everyone off at the staff party.
Was the runt of the litter.
Bullied at school because he kept wetting himself.
Typical car driving cyclist who needs to grow a pair.
Limp wristed tosser.
Kin hell I would love 10 mins with him outside around the back ......fking idiot
I fell sorry for his children that's of course if he could take his hand off his
tool long enough to produce any, feel sorry for his wife / boyfriend must be difficult living with a small minded zerk off.
He is right and we are all wrong.
He is the sort of person that would pick his nose, scratch his hole then pick up a hand full
of nibbles on the bar without washing his hands.
The bloke who pisses everyone off at the staff party.
Was the runt of the litter.
Bullied at school because he kept wetting himself.
Typical car driving cyclist who needs to grow a pair.
Limp wristed tosser.
Kin hell I would love 10 mins with him outside around the back ......f
king idiotI fell sorry for his children that's of course if he could take his hand off his
tool long enough to produce any, feel sorry for his wife / boyfriend must be difficult living with a small minded zerk off.
Red Devil said:
QBee said:
The problem with 38 tonnes of truck driven at 56 mph by someone who is watching a video/calling the wife/reading a book is obvious.
Not half as much fun as this guy is having - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIJ4yROg7Ng
Nice to see someone happy at their work, although if I had to drive a TGA, I wouldn't be chuffed about it.
As someone mentioned earlier, the coppers are easy to spot bouncing solo and hanging around the middle lane, so they won't catch me taking a swig of water.
Dammit said:
I'm not arguing with you - I'm stating fact.
Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
Dammit you need to spend some time with the police who have to investigate these fatalities. In 2013/14 80% of the cyclists killed by HGVs in the Met area were female riders who were 3rd or 4th in the cycle queue at the junction, generally were casual or infrequent riders and usually had earphones in. They were unable to get in front of the wagon before it started turning left, unlike the male cyclists who had got to the front of the queue. It's not victim blaming, the statistics speak for themselves. Either HGV drivers can see where they are going, and therefore kill out of incompetence, or they can't see where they are going and the vehicles are unsafe to be driven in a built up area.
Either way the driver is culpable for the death of the person whom they run over.
Your victim blaming is beyond disgusting - which is probably why you are being so defensive now.
Would you advocate showing a group of young women the results of an aggravated rape to persuade them not to go to the pub on a Friday night?
No - because that's horrific.
But you are happy to advise showing a group of cyclists the aftermath of an HGV driver killing a fellow cyclist.
Now, wind your neck in and -please- stop before you kill someone.
To put it another way, what would you say to a car driver who tried to go straight on up the inside of an HGV that was indicating left? Is the inevitable accident the HGV driver's fault then? Of course not, so why is it different for the cyclist?
We have a militiant cyclist in our team, she makes you look like a peaceful butterfly to be honest, who attended the event where I got the picture of the police truck cab I posted above. She attended reluctantly as she like you believed that it was always the lorry driver's fault and that she had nothing to learn. She left the event three hours later white as a sheet and has changed her riding style & road positioning as a result.
FORS, CLOCS, HGV route planning to avoid left turns and the cycle superhighways will only do so much. We live in a congested island with a road network designed around the horse and cart. ALL road users need to play their part to keep themselves safe, cyclists as much as anyone else. The trouble is the foot and bicycle is the only form of transport you can use with no formal training.
Edited by Collectingbrass on Sunday 22 November 08:10
Dammit, would you position yourself between the kerb and an artic HGV at a junction, from which it may turn left, or wait behind it?
I wonder how many road deaths would be avoided if one of the drivers, despite being in the right, gave less opportunity for the mistake of someone else to be fatal.
Perhaps it should be law that the exhaust of an artic cab expels fumes down the near side of the unit?
Or the reversing alarm be wired up to sound when driving <10mph and indicating left
I wonder how many road deaths would be avoided if one of the drivers, despite being in the right, gave less opportunity for the mistake of someone else to be fatal.
Perhaps it should be law that the exhaust of an artic cab expels fumes down the near side of the unit?
Or the reversing alarm be wired up to sound when driving <10mph and indicating left
simoid said:
Dammit, would you position yourself between the kerb and an artic HGV at a junction, from which it may turn left, or wait behind it?
I wonder how many road deaths would be avoided if one of the drivers, despite being in the right, gave less opportunity for the mistake of someone else to be fatal.
Perhaps it should be law that the exhaust of an artic cab expels fumes down the near side of the unit?
Or the reversing alarm be wired up to sound when driving <10mph and indicating left
You can fit a warning system that's sounds when turning, pain is at night when you working in residential areas.I wonder how many road deaths would be avoided if one of the drivers, despite being in the right, gave less opportunity for the mistake of someone else to be fatal.
Perhaps it should be law that the exhaust of an artic cab expels fumes down the near side of the unit?
Or the reversing alarm be wired up to sound when driving <10mph and indicating left
Like reversing systems that disable when lights are on for night use.
But many drivers tend to have their lights on in daylight anyway which renders them in operative.
Driver & Cyclist education is needed.
I witnessed a woman in Putney coming over the bridge and attempting to pass a tipper turning right
at some lights on the off side.
She clipped the centre kerb resulting in her going under the side of the truck.
Well if this was not rider stupidity I don't know what is.
The moped rider behind her went outside the keep left to avoid the collision, must have been the perfect witness but just rode off.
As for the idiots who provoke road confrontation with their helmet & dash cams they need a big wake up call as sometimes this recorded evidence will bite them back.
What I dont understand is that - as a motorbiker - you're taught a lot about where is safe to ride and where isnt. You spend a lot of time thinking about what other vehicles are going to do, what they can see, where do I want to be in relation to that. Hopefully it keeps you out of danger. I wear leathers, helmet and boots which if the worst should happen will at least keep me somewhat protected.
Why then do cyclists with nothing than a lycra top put themselves in dangerous places time after time? Places where no motorbiker would ever considering going.
Why then do cyclists with nothing than a lycra top put themselves in dangerous places time after time? Places where no motorbiker would ever considering going.
SVTRick said:
Kin hell I would love 10 mins with him outside around the back ......fking idiot
You could at least offer to buy me a drink first, I had assumed that dinner wasn't on the cards but this - it's a little crude, no?king idiotStill, it's an interesting combination of ad hominem and ad homonem I suppose.
Collectingbrass said:
Dammit you need to spend some time with the police who have to investigate these fatalities. In 2013/14 80% of the cyclists killed by HGVs in the Met area were female riders who were 3rd or 4th in the cycle queue at the junction, generally were casual or infrequent riders and usually had earphones in. They were unable to get in front of the wagon before it started turning left, unlike the male cyclists who had got to the front of the queue. It's not victim blaming, the statistics speak for themselves.
To put it another way, what would you say to a car driver who tried to go straight on up the inside of an HGV that was indicating left? Is the inevitable accident the HGV driver's fault then? Of course not, so why is it different for the cyclist?
We have a militiant cyclist in our team, she makes you look like a peaceful butterfly to be honest, who attended the event where I got the picture of the police truck cab I posted above. She attended reluctantly as she like you believed that it was always the lorry driver's fault and that she had nothing to learn. She left the event three hours later white as a sheet and has changed her riding style & road positioning as a result.
FORS, CLOCS, HGV route planning to avoid left turns and the cycle superhighways will only do so much. We live in a congested island with a road network designed around the horse and cart. ALL road users need to play their part to keep themselves safe, cyclists as much as anyone else. The trouble is the foot and bicycle is the only form of transport you can use with no formal training.
"They were unable to get in front of the wagon before it started turning left, unlike the male cyclists who had got to the front of the queue. It's not victim blaming, the statistics speak for themselves."To put it another way, what would you say to a car driver who tried to go straight on up the inside of an HGV that was indicating left? Is the inevitable accident the HGV driver's fault then? Of course not, so why is it different for the cyclist?
We have a militiant cyclist in our team, she makes you look like a peaceful butterfly to be honest, who attended the event where I got the picture of the police truck cab I posted above. She attended reluctantly as she like you believed that it was always the lorry driver's fault and that she had nothing to learn. She left the event three hours later white as a sheet and has changed her riding style & road positioning as a result.
FORS, CLOCS, HGV route planning to avoid left turns and the cycle superhighways will only do so much. We live in a congested island with a road network designed around the horse and cart. ALL road users need to play their part to keep themselves safe, cyclists as much as anyone else. The trouble is the foot and bicycle is the only form of transport you can use with no formal training.
Edited by Collectingbrass on Sunday 22 November 08:10
The reason that their actions are remarkable (as in, remarked on) is because they did what they have been doing, potentially for years, and this time they were killed.
If the vehicle in question was NOT an HGV what, in your professional opinion, would have been the result - dead cyclist, or maybe some horn-honking and bad language?
= It's the vehicle that is the primary cause of danger here.
I'm not saying that educating cyclists is a negative - far from it, as long as dangerous vehicles are allowed on the road then they'll have to deal with them, however simply accepting that "you go up the left/you die" is the natural order of things is crazy. The vehicles are, at a fundamental level, unsafe to be driven in a city like London. This has to change.
"To put it another way, what would you say to a car driver who tried to go straight on up the inside of an HGV that was indicating left? Is the inevitable accident the HGV driver's fault then? Of course not, so why is it different for the cyclist?"
If the car was positioned to the left of the HGV by the design of the road (i.e. a green car lane) if they were travelling straight ahead, and the HGV to the right of the car then turned left across them then I suspect the driver of the car would be outraged - the road design put's them in direct conflict with the HGV leading to serious danger for the driver of the vehicle. You are right - there is no difference here, or rather there would not be if the infrastructure for cars put them in the same conflicted position as it does for cyclists. You noted yourself that male cyclists tend to get to the front and therefore out of the danger zone that the cycle lane leaves female cyclists in.
"She left the event three hours later white as a sheet and has changed her riding style & road positioning as a result.
You say this like it's a positive, rather than a horrifying confirmation of the danger posed by HGV's in confined conditions. Why should a road user be so terrified of another?
It's the worst kind of bullying.
"FORS, CLOCS, HGV route planning to avoid left turns and the cycle superhighways will only do so much. We live in a congested island with a road network designed around the horse and cart. ALL road users need to play their part to keep themselves safe, cyclists as much as anyone else. The trouble is the foot and bicycle is the only form of transport you can use with no formal training."
Yet 99% of cyclists are at least as qualified as the "ordinary motorist", being in possession of a driving licence and often a motorcycle licence. The trouble is therefore clearly not in the training, it is in the HGV, remove the HGV and cyclists don't die - it's that simple.
Condi said:
What I dont understand is that - as a motorbiker - you're taught a lot about where is safe to ride and where isnt. You spend a lot of time thinking about what other vehicles are going to do, what they can see, where do I want to be in relation to that. Hopefully it keeps you out of danger. I wear leathers, helmet and boots which if the worst should happen will at least keep me somewhat protected.
Why then do cyclists with nothing than a lycra top put themselves in dangerous places time after time? Places where no motorbiker would ever considering going.
Look at how the infrastructure is designed - the green cycle lane feeds all cyclists (who choose to use them) up the left at every junction.Why then do cyclists with nothing than a lycra top put themselves in dangerous places time after time? Places where no motorbiker would ever considering going.
Also every cyclist is used to abuse for "being in the middle of the road", the motorists want to be there and will drive a cyclist over to the left (into a dangerous location more often than not) if they can. Modern cycle training is very similar to that given to motorcyclists - taking the lane is key, but it's tough, especially for women it seems who are as we have seen the vast majority of those killed by lorry drivers.
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