Reasonable force?
Discussion
LoonR1 said:
As for all the talk of being understaffed, I'm living in one of my rental homes currently and have (unfortunately) got two coppers for neighbours. She hasn't done a days work since I moved in 8 months ago, because she has a "hurty back". It doesn't stop her lugging stuff around the garden, drinking til 3am and dancing outside in the street. He seems to do the occasional day every now and then, but not much at all.
This doesn't seem to be an isolated example. There should be some tighter control of absence, as that would help to plug the gap.
Be an idea if you could keep a record/film them & make a complaint to the force. Officers like that we don't need & they just give the rest of us a greater workload & a bad name.This doesn't seem to be an isolated example. There should be some tighter control of absence, as that would help to plug the gap.
paintman said:
Be an idea if you could keep a record/film them & make a complaint to the force. Officers like that we don't need & they just give the rest of us a greater workload & a bad name.
I'll be making a complaint about plenty of other things first. I now know why this house is always the one where I lose tenants the quickest. Sad bullies. Torrent of verbal abuse aimed at me for asking her to turn her music down, wild accusations that my car is the reason that there are houses being broken into "because they've come to steal your car and are breaking into our houses as well". Drunken abuse of a lad across the road and his young family, drunkenly driving a neighbours car without permission and damaging the door, moving people's bins around at silly o'clock in the night, because "they're in the wrong order and I'm not having it any more". Believe me, the list goes on and on, although they are both very confused by my refusal to bow down before them. She's a real credit to the force.
LoonR1 said:
I'll be making a complaint about plenty of other things first. I now know why this house is always the one where I lose tenants the quickest. Sad bullies. Torrent of verbal abuse aimed at me for asking her to turn her music down, wild accusations that my car is the reason that there are houses being broken into "because they've come to steal your car and are breaking into our houses as well". Drunken abuse of a lad across the road and his young family, drunkenly driving a neighbours car without permission and damaging the door, moving people's bins around at silly o'clock in the night, because "they're in the wrong order and I'm not having it any more". Believe me, the list goes on and on, although they are both very confused by my refusal to bow down before them.
She's a real credit to the force.
She sounds like a total tw&t. She's a real credit to the force.
Elroy Blue said:
jaf01uk said:
Oh the irony is strong in this post, pick up your dummy and wash it off, you'll be fine....
Perhaps you need to get a bit of a sense of humour. Regardless, the point of the post is correct. Any UK Officer in that situation would find themselves in an unenviable position. Someone else mentioned the "helicopter gunships" etc, it's the same as the headlines saying that Britain was full and slagging off call me Dave for letting too many immigrants in, then 2 weeks later a baby washes up on a beach and all of a sudden there are loads of free council houses and charter flights, the security services must be jumping off buildings as the unchecked "refugees" are leaping to the front of the housing queues, after all Isis would never think of planting fighters in with the refugees would they?
LoonR1 said:
My view is that I don't want to see the police armed as a matter of course, I want to know that there is some armed response nearby (within 30 miles) and that the army if needed are there via helicopter, or other quick transport.
You need a lot more armed police than that. If the nearest armed police are 30 miles away, then even if they average 60mph which would be impossible many places anyway, it will take 30 mins for them to arrive. The army are good at enforcing British foreign policy militarily, I don't think they would be as good at law enforcement and almost nobody outside of military dictatorships use the army as law enforcement.
If you have the nearest armed police a half-hour away, that means if a criminal, thug or terrorist is armed, then there is nothing, nothing you can do about it.
creampuff said:
You need a lot more armed police than that. If the nearest armed police are 30 miles away, then even if they average 60mph which would be impossible many places anyway, it will take 30 mins for them to arrive.
The army are good at enforcing British foreign policy militarily, I don't think they would be as good at law enforcement and almost nobody outside of military dictatorships use the army as law enforcement.
If you have the nearest armed police a half-hour away, that means if a criminal, thug or terrorist is armed, then there is nothing, nothing you can do about it.
And there's the quandary. Armed police and lots of them, or we accept there is potentially more danger in outperform daily lives. Personally, I see the chances of a mugging or other violent street crime as a far more real threat than some psychos jihadying their way over here. I think our intelligence service is pretty good on that score, despite the slating many love to dish out. The army are good at enforcing British foreign policy militarily, I don't think they would be as good at law enforcement and almost nobody outside of military dictatorships use the army as law enforcement.
If you have the nearest armed police a half-hour away, that means if a criminal, thug or terrorist is armed, then there is nothing, nothing you can do about it.
jaf01uk said:
You didn't spot the smiley then?
Someone else mentioned the "helicopter gunships" etc, it's the same as the headlines saying that Britain was full and slagging off call me Dave for letting too many immigrants in, then 2 weeks later a baby washes up on a beach and all of a sudden there are loads of free council houses and charter flights, the security services must be jumping off buildings as the unchecked "refugees" are leaping to the front of the housing queues, after all Isis would never think of planting fighters in with the refugees would they?
Why would they need to? ISIS are absolutely loaded, they would simply book a first class flight over here and then deal once they got here. Getting here isn't the problem at all, it's how to get the weapons in undetected. Someone else mentioned the "helicopter gunships" etc, it's the same as the headlines saying that Britain was full and slagging off call me Dave for letting too many immigrants in, then 2 weeks later a baby washes up on a beach and all of a sudden there are loads of free council houses and charter flights, the security services must be jumping off buildings as the unchecked "refugees" are leaping to the front of the housing queues, after all Isis would never think of planting fighters in with the refugees would they?
creampuff said:
LoonR1 said:
And there's the quandary. Armed police and lots of them, or we accept there is potentially more danger in outperform daily lives.
I don't know you need lots, you just may want more ordinary police armed than there are now. LoonR1 said:
How would you define the now armed police, that were once ordinary police? You seem to see a difference between armed police and armed police. I see only armed police.
The current model of British policing, it seems to me as a civilian, is for specialist armed police divisions to turn up when they think there will be unfriendly people at the incident who are armed. I don't see a problem, other than historical inertia, for some ordinary police to be routinely armed even when they are on duty with no expectation at all of encountering anyone armed and unfriendly. To be of any use against jihadi camel f
kers, they would also need to have a rifle in their car, since handguns are useless if you are up against somebody with an automatic rifle. Did you hear about this?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/arm...
jaf01uk said:
after all Isis would never think of planting fighters in with the refugees would they?
News report from abroad (perhaps Greece, Lampos?) where the main man in the Paris thing passed through there as a refugee not so long ago. Another news report on how out "armed police " units would fare against the likes of the Paris terrorists. I think the term was "peashooters against cannons". Then again, a proper army unit with decent firepower turns up against this lot - what will our political masters do - same as they did in NI,PROBABLY- fire over their heads ,in case of a backlash .I'd suggest at long last ,the French have got it right. "It's War" ,so send in the army to disarm/destroy or kill, before the terrorists do that to the innocent. Or perhaps we now need to give the poorly armed Police, a higher level of firepower ,in case they attend one of these situations, and in individual cases, remove the questions over extreme force in the case of terrorists. I've noticed ( IN THE NEWS) that there's now questions being asked about the EU open border policy.
creampuff said:
LoonR1 said:
And there's the quandary. Armed police and lots of them, or we accept there is potentially more danger in outperform daily lives.
I don't know you need lots, you just may want more ordinary police armed than there are now. creampuff said:
LoonR1 said:
How would you define the now armed police, that were once ordinary police? You seem to see a difference between armed police and armed police. I see only armed police.
The current model of British policing, it seems to me as a civilian, is for specialist armed police divisions to turn up when they think there will be unfriendly people at the incident who are armed. I don't see a problem, other than historical inertia, for some ordinary police to be routinely armed even when they are on duty with no expectation at all of encountering anyone armed and unfriendly. To be of any use against jihadi camel fkers, they would also need to have a rifle in their car, since handguns are useless if you are up against somebody with an automatic rifle. Did you hear about this?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/arm...
Are you armed armed, or just armed?
I'm armed armed
Right, armed armed, not armed
Perhaps we should just follow the French model - Commune police for local issues, and Gendarmes for rural and national issues or those requiring better fire power and more ammunition.
Of course what we would still lack is the respect and understanding attitude of a good majority the French people towards their police forces.
Of course what we would still lack is the respect and understanding attitude of a good majority the French people towards their police forces.
Bigends] said:
Most 'ordinary' Police. you wouldnt want within 50ft of a gun - believe me
What's unique about the UK police compared with just about every other country in the world? Is there something unique about the populations of Europe, Australia and Northern Ireland, for example, which enable them to safely carry but not us?
LoonR1 said:
This is like a Micky Flanagan sketch
Are you armed armed, or just armed?
I'm armed armed
Right, armed armed, not armed
This works overseas. Most or all ordinary police are armed; if there is a specific incident then they call up what are now in the UK the smaller number of specialist armed police. It's not rocket science.Are you armed armed, or just armed?
I'm armed armed
Right, armed armed, not armed
La Liga said:
Bigends] said:
Most 'ordinary' Police. you wouldnt want within 50ft of a gun - believe me
What's unique about the UK police compared with just about every other country in the world? Is there something unique about the populations of Europe, Australia and Northern Ireland, for example, which enable them to safely carry but not us?
Mill Wheel said:
Perhaps we should just follow the French model - Commune police for local issues, and Gendarmes for rural and national issues or those requiring better fire power and more ammunition.
Close but no cigar. The policing structure in France is far more complex. There are 3 strands.
Police Municipale.
Police Nationale.
Gendarmerie Nationale
The Gendarmerie is not a civilian force. It is part of the French armed Forces.
Paris is a special case. The Préfecture de police de Paris is part of the Police Nationale but the Préfet is a political appointment.
He/she is chosen by the President of France/Council of Ministers and reports directly to the Minister of the Interior.
It wouldn't translate to the UK as our legal system and structure is also entirely different.
Mill Wheel said:
Of course what we would still lack is the respect and understanding attitude of a good majority the French people towards their police forces.
I would probably think twice about arguing with someone who is toting a lethal weapon.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff