running red light-can I get a course instead of the 3 points

running red light-can I get a course instead of the 3 points

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Discussion

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
Yes, it is the obvious thing to do, and is indeed what I would do, except there's no guarantee that doing so might not be making things worse, by your actions allowing the lights more time to change before you see them.
And then there's always the chance that stopping at a red light means the car behind explodes and kills you, so you should always run red lights. Ifs, buts amd maybes. You're arguing imponderables, which is pretty ridiculous.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
And then there's always the chance that stopping at a red light means the car behind explodes and kills you, so you should always run red lights. Ifs, buts amd maybes. You're arguing imponderables, which is pretty ridiculous.
You've just crossed the line from what's a highly possible end result to the scenario, to unfeasible fantasy.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
You've just crossed the line from what's a highly possible end result to the scenario, to unfeasible fantasy.
Even you admit your scenario is "highly improbable", as quoted below. To now claim that it's highly possible is a bit disingenuous. To use your quote further, do you think it's impossible for a car to ever blow up when it's behind someone, just because the odds are so against it?

Pete317 said:
No matter how highly improbable it may seem, with the sheer number of car journeys every day, if it can happen then it will.

Or do you think that it's impossible for anybody to ever win the lottery because the odds are so against it?


Edited by Pete317 on Sunday 22 November 21:20

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
Pete317 said:
You've just crossed the line from what's a highly possible end result to the scenario, to unfeasible fantasy.
Even you admit your scenario is "highly improbable", as quoted below. To now claim that it's highly possible is a bit disingenuous. To use your quote further, do you think it's impossible for a car to ever blow up when it's behind someone, just because the odds are so against it?
Try keeping things in the context in which they were given.

The scenario of the lights being obscured at the wrong time is highly improbable, but it does happen due to the sheer number of opportunities for it to happen.

But, on the rare occasion that it does happen, there's two possible outcomes - slowing down is going to either help you or work against you, depending on the exact timing of events, and while it's somewhat more likely to help you, it's not guaranteed to.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
Try keeping things in the context in which they were given.

The scenario of the lights being obscured at the wrong time is highly improbable, but it does happen due to the sheer number of opportunities for it to happen.

But, on the rare occasion that it does happen, there's two possible outcomes - slowing down is going to either help you or work against you, depending on the exact timing of events, and while it's somewhat more likely to help you, it's not guaranteed to.
I think you're arguing against yourself now. Most of your posts seem to take a Devil's Advocate position, no matter how farcical that position is, your argument here bring a prime example of it.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
I think you're arguing against yourself now. Most of your posts seem to take a Devil's Advocate position, no matter how farcical that position is, your argument here bring a prime example of it.
It's pointless continuing this discussion, because you're evidently determined to see only what you want to.


Edited by Pete317 on Sunday 22 November 22:05

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
It's pointless continuing this discussion, because you're evidently determined to see only what you want to.


Edited by Pete317 on Sunday 22 November 22:05
Good.

I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
Good.

I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.
As you're in the insurance business, I'm somewhat mystified at your views on improbable events.

Highly improbable events happen all the time, given enough opportunities.
People win big on the lottery pretty much every week, and people regularly get struck by lightning - to name just a few.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
LoonR1 said:
Good.

I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.
As you're in the insurance business, I'm somewhat mystified at your views on improbable events.

Highly improbable events happen all the time, given enough opportunities.
People win big on the lottery pretty much every week, and people regularly get struck by lightning - to name just a few.

Anyway, we'll just have to agree to disagree.
Go back and re-read my post banghead

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
Go back and re-read my post banghead
I did!

You seem to think that something highly unlikely is never going to happen - which I well know from experience in my business is wrong. Long ago I used to imagine that if you had a failure rate on a product of a few ppb then you would be highly unlikely to ever see a failure in a million items - how wrong I was!
Given enough opportunities, even the most highly improbable of scenarios is going to happen, and possibly far more often than you may think.

And it is worthwhile discussing, simply because if someone reported it happening then one cannot simply write them off as a liar.

Anyway, good night!


Edited by Pete317 on Sunday 22 November 22:45

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
Pete317 said:
LoonR1 said:
Go back and re-read my post banghead
I did!

You seem to think that something highly unlikely is never going to happen - which I well know from experience in my business is wrong. Long ago I used to imagine that if you had a failure rate on a product of a few ppb then you would be highly unlikely to ever see a failure in a million items - how wrong I was!
Given enough opportunities, even the most highly improbable of scenarios is going to happen, and possibly far more often than you may think.

Anyway, good night!
Well you must be blind. Here it is in bold

LoonR1 said:
Good.

I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
quotequote all
LoonR1 said:
I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.
You're right - the bit that I saw is the one I've just bolded.

And the only reason it turned into such a long discussion is because of people refusing to accept that it can and does happen, and that therefore the OP cannot possibly not have been in the wrong.

LoonR1

26,988 posts

176 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
LoonR1 said:
I'm quite happy to admit anything's possible when driving, given the volume of claims that I know about then I'm probably better placed than most to say that. However, I don't think that having a lengthy discussion about something that is so highly unlikely to ever happen is worthwhile.

Bear in mind you are equally only seeing what you want to.
You're right - the bit that I saw is the one I've just bolded.

And the only reason it turned into such a long discussion is because of people refusing to accept that it can and does happen, and that therefore the OP can only possibly have been in the wrong.
He was in the wrong. He ran a red light. He wasn't in imminent danger. He saw the amber light. It wasn't obscured. He made a conscious decision to speed up to run the lights. He was so inattentive that he did it in front of two coppers. He then admits arguing the toss with them. He has no defence. He did it. He's now paying the price. None of your highly improbable, but still possible scenarios alter any of that.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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LoonR1 said:
He was in the wrong. He ran a red light. He wasn't in imminent danger. He saw the amber light. It wasn't obscured. He made a conscious decision to speed up to run the lights. He was so inattentive that he did it in front of two coppers. He then admits arguing the toss with them. He has no defence. He did it. He's now paying the price. None of your highly improbable, but still possible scenarios alter any of that.
OK, maybe not in the case of the OP, but the general attitude seems to be that it's impossible for it to happen to anyone unless they're doing something wrong.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Sunday 22nd November 2015
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Pete317 said:
So you reckon that it's impossible for anything to go wrong, regardless of what peculiar circumstances may exist, just as long as you're not breaking any rules - not that you've ever broken any rules, of course?

And even if not, have you, for example, never been distracted by another driver doing something stupid, at what may turn out to be an inopportune moment?
Perhaps you missed my point.

It is not only entirely possible, but it is very common for wuckfits to drive around with their brains in neutral and their eyes closed. That is by FAR and away the most common cause of people not noticing amber traffic lights until they're far too close to stop. The second most common cause is seeing them but not giving a toss.

Monkeylegend

26,227 posts

230 months

Monday 23rd November 2015
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I propose joint posting, so 2 or more posters can have their names and post count on the same post so both can have the last word in a prolonged, meaningless internet argument.

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Monday 23rd November 2015
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Loon : what is the most improbable thing you have seen in your insurance career?


This has nothing to do with the OP, or your current argument : it is just idle curiosity.

Pete317

1,430 posts

221 months

Monday 23rd November 2015
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TooMany2cvs said:
Pete317 said:
So you reckon that it's impossible for anything to go wrong, regardless of what peculiar circumstances may exist, just as long as you're not breaking any rules - not that you've ever broken any rules, of course?

And even if not, have you, for example, never been distracted by another driver doing something stupid, at what may turn out to be an inopportune moment?
Perhaps you missed my point.

It is not only entirely possible, but it is very common for wuckfits to drive around with their brains in neutral and their eyes closed. That is by FAR and away the most common cause of people not noticing amber traffic lights until they're far too close to stop. The second most common cause is seeing them but not giving a toss.
And it's also very common on the approach to lights, and especially those on roundabouts, to have other drivers suddenly trying to move into your lane and forcing you to take avoiding action - a big distraction which could come just at the wrong time.

My whole point is that you cannot say that driver is 100% always at fault. Perhaps 99.999% but not 100%


Edited by Pete317 on Monday 23 November 08:25

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Monday 23rd November 2015
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0000 said:
To under 30. I didn't read anything about accelerating causing guilt.
Amber means stop the same as red.
There are certain defences that can be used sometimes to get off with going through an amber light. I.e if you braked so sharply it would cause an accident.

Accelerating from 20mph to 30mph to try and go through before red isn't a defence for going though on amber.

0000

13,812 posts

190 months

Monday 23rd November 2015
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To under 30. It's no defence, it's not automatic guilt either.