46C - Parked on a Clearway - Signs?

[Conor D]

Hi,

I have just received my second parking ticket in just under a month. Both have been for a 46C - Parked on a clearway during hours of operation. Both were issued at 4:40pm on the same street - in different sections.

The first time I got one, I was parked against the flow of traffic. There were signs for the clearway being active from 4:30pm - 6:00pm but these were 100m in either direction from where I was parked (also facing the other direction).

This time I was also parked against the flow of traffic, on a different section of this road. There are no signs for a clearway, I walked in either direction and there do not appear to be any signs on this section. There is a sign showing the clearway on the other side of the street - but this is only active from 8:30-9am.

Are there specific rules regarding clearways in the city - and signs notifying when they are active?

I don't know if I have been clear here, but I want to know where I stand if there are not any signage to show that it is a clearway? I intend to challenge this one also. It's very convenient that the online challenge system does not work at all - errors for days - and the only place you can actually submit any details is to a random P.O. Box.

[LoonR1]

Why is the PO Box random? Do you think it's really a box in the middle of nowhere?

Why does parking against the flow of traffic matter? You've posted it as if it somehow magically changes the circumstances.

[2 sMoKiN bArReLs]

LoonR1 said:

Why does parking against the flow of traffic matter?

If it was dark the ticket might be for that?

[Hamish Finn]

Conor D said:

I have just received my second parking ticket in just under a month. Both have been for a 46C - Parked on a clearway during hours of operation. Both were issued at 4:40pm on the same street

Ummm....?

[Conor D]

LoonR1 said:

Why is the PO Box random? Do you think it's really a box in the middle of nowhere?

Why does parking against the flow of traffic matter? You've posted it as if it somehow magically changes the circumstances.

It's a P.O. Box in another city. It's not connected to the building of the organisation who issue the tickets. There isn't a phone number to discuss the ticket - there is simply a P.O. Box. Send off the challenge, and wait to receive confirmation/feedback by post.

If you want to pay the ticket - you can do it online, over the phone or by sending a cheque.

By parking against the flow of traffic I mean that I parked on the other side of the street - i.e I had to cross oncoming traffic to park (drivers door to kerb). Rather than parking on the side of the street which is along the flow of traffic - I didn't have to cross oncoming traffic (passenger door to kerb).

If the clearway must be clearly signposted then surely it isn't in this case? I could've parked 10,000 times in this place and you would not know it was a clearway unless you walked 100m up the street only to walk down again.

I'm trying to be as clear as possible without drawing on a map...

[Conor D]

Hamish Finn said:

Conor D said:

I have just received my second parking ticket in just under a month. Both have been for a 46C - Parked on a clearway during hours of operation. Both were issued at 4:40pm on the same street

Ummm....?

Bottom point is the previous ticket. Top point (beside Museum) is today.

The street changes throughout.

[LoonR1]

Conor D said:

It's a P.O. Box in another city. It's not connected to the building of the organisation who issue the tickets. There isn't a phone number to discuss the ticket - there is simply a P.O. Box. Send off the challenge, and wait to receive confirmation/feedback by post.

If you want to pay the ticket - you can do it online, over the phone or by sending a cheque.

By parking against the flow of traffic I mean that I parked on the other side of the street - i.e I had to cross oncoming traffic to park (drivers door to kerb). Rather than parking on the side of the street which is along the flow of traffic - I didn't have to cross oncoming traffic (passenger door to kerb).

If the clearway must be clearly signposted then surely it isn't in this case? I could've parked 10,000 times in this place and you would not know it was a clearway unless you walked 100m up the street only to walk down again.

I'm trying to be as clear as possible without drawing on a map...

Four paragraphs which do t answer either of the questions I asked.

Do you have any concept of how PO Boxes work? Why does it matter what the address is anyway?

Why did you park against the flow of the traffic? Why do you think that matters?

[Roo]

Both issued at exactly the same time of day?

[Jim1556]

I'm working away and bored so, here you go...

This one clearly visible on the southbound approach to Ridgeway Street:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5783837,-5.93404...

This one outside the museum (again southbound):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5826925,-5.93644...

Although, on the northbound side, this says AM only (as does the red sign a little further on)...:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5801461,-5.93525...

I suppose it all depends which side your car was parked on...

[LoonR1]

Double yellows everywhere along that road, lay-bys would be OK, nothing else would IMO. Not sure what your problem is.

[Conor D]

Jim1556 said:

I'm working away and bored so, here you go...

This one clearly visible on the southbound approach to Ridgeway Street:
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5783837,-5.93404...

This one is there. I parked around 100m further down that road, in the opposite direction that the post van is facing. So I would not have seen any of the signs on my approach to park, after parking, or even when leaving the space.

My question is - does that still count as the clearway being clearly identified?

[Conor D]

Jim1556 said:

This one outside the museum (again southbound):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5826925,-5.93644...

This sign is no longer on the post. There is nothing there. Currently there are no signs on this section showing any clearway at 4:30-6:00pm.

The only one which is there is the one from 8:30am-9:00am as shown in your third link, which is on the other side of the street.

[beeej]

I am not 100% clear what you mean by "against the flow of traffic".

At the north entrance, I see a big red sign saying "PM only in this direction"

At the south entrance (well its not the end its a bit up) I see "AM only in this direction"

So which side of the road were you on at 4:40pm?



(/me googles Highway Code)

"In built-up areas, urban clearways may be
provided. During the times the urban clearway
is in operation, stopping is not allowed on the
carriageway or verges, except to pick up or
set down passengers. There are no special
road markings, but the signs are repeated
throughout the length of the clearway"

[speedking31]

I think what the OP is getting at is that the Clearway conditions are different on each side of the road. It looks as if parking is permitted on one side in the morning and the other in the evening. That allows better use of the road during rush hour.

This isgn is a pretty comprehensive warning.

His issue is that he approached from one direction, saw some signs, then crossed to the other side to park having not seen any restriction signs for that side of the road. The relevant signs are some way from where he parked.

He is asking would this stack up as a defence against a parking ticket? I suspect not.

Edited by speedking31 on Wednesday 25th November 13:28

[LoonR1]

I doubt it.

His defence seems to be "I saw some signs for a clear way, so parked on the other side of the road without looking for or at any of the signs on that side of the road, as they were either a few hundred years away and / or I could only see the back of them."

It's a bit duff

[Jim1556]

Conor D said:

This one is there. I parked around 100m further down that road, in the opposite direction that the post van is facing. So I would not have seen any of the signs on my approach to park, after parking, or even when leaving the space.

My question is - does that still count as the clearway being clearly identified?

Hmmmm - the plot thickens...

May I point you to: http://tinyurl.com/ppqodmz (Government Traffic Signs Manual).

Specifically Chapter 9.9:

URBAN CLEARWAY9.9 The urban clearway prohibits stopping during peak periods, but is effectively a prohibition of waiting and loading as drivers may stop to pick up and set down passengers. It applies to both sides of the carriageway and is indicated by the sign to diagram 646 erected on each side of the road to face oncoming traffic. The sign indicates two time periods representing the morning and evening peak periods; it cannot be varied to show a single time period such as 8 am to 6 pm.

Continuing:

As road markings are not used with urban clearways, signs should be provided in both directions just after each side road junction. The signs should be sited a sufficient distance from the junction to enable them to be read by drivers turning into the clearway, but generally no more than 45 m measured from the backline of the side road. Care will need to be taken when siting signs at a staggered crossroads or where junctions are very close together. Where junctions are more than 400 m apart, additional signs should be provided to maintain a spacing of not more than 400 m. The end of the clearway is indicated by the sign to diagram 647. In most cases, this will be mounted on both sides of the road back to back with the commencement sign to diagram 646. Signs to diagrams 646 and 647 are not normally provided on side roads that join or cross an urban clearway.

IMO, You may have a case to appeal if you were parked 100m further on from the Royal Mail van, you could 'conceivably' have entered the clearway where the RM Van is, turned left, driven a little, and after a U turn (as you missed a space), parked unknowing of any breach.

Although I think it's a stretch, the 'rules' do seems to have not been followed here when they installed signage...

[Jim1556]

Conor D said:

Jim1556 said:

This one outside the museum (again southbound):
https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5826925,-5.93644...

This sign is no longer on the post. There is nothing there. Currently there are no signs on this section showing any clearway at 4:30-6:00pm.

The only one which is there is the one from 8:30am-9:00am as shown in your third link, which is on the other side of the street.

But is this one? About 50m before the missing one (as you enter the road): https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@54.5831995,-5.93669...

Think you may be bang to rights on this occassion...

[Nickyboy]

There's plenty of signage, i don't see getting out of it on a technicality.

[velocefica]

Given this is Belfast i'm actually surprised this isn't about bus lanes.

They have gone all out war on the motorist with bus lanes, 100,000 tickets for driving in bus lanes in about two months in a city with an urban pop of about 500,000.

A taxi driver got a ticket for driving in a 24 hour bus lane at 1am. The buses stop at 11pm and start again at 6am.

[Jim1556]

Nickyboy said:

There's plenty of signage, i don't see getting out of it on a technicality.

Plenty of people (probably you included) would love to get out of a speeding ticket if the signage was incorrect! Right or wrong, rules are there for a reason, but if they're not technically displayed correctly, he may have a case for appeal...

Although, I do agree, there's plenty of signage and the fact he's been done twice for breaching the times, then maybe it isn't 'lesson learned'...