Private road and parking issues
Discussion
I live in a private street with mostly retired people.
After about 5 years of local streets being over run with 95% hospital staff parking in and clogging and in some cases blocking people's drives the council have finally put in permit zones. This has pushed the same people who won't pay £1.50 for local park and ride and the hospital permits. As out street is private we have now been over run in the last few weeks. We had 1/2 previously and the local NHW guy used to see them off but his wife has just died and he has understandably had other things on his mind.
I never really appreciated the job he did until the last few weeks were we have been swamped. I don't have much sympathy for them as its not at nightworkers it's office hours and the park and ride is £1.50 all day and not far. Unfortunately after years of doing this some of these folk have become rather uncaring and nasty if you complain they hang over your drive or block it I have this week issued notices asking to cease and desist and pointing out it is a private road and the hospital are doing a bulletin to staff. I have stated it is private and from1st December a parking enforcement company will be fining drivers.
Now we don't want to go down this route but I have got hold of 20 parking tickets from a company with window wallets etc.
How am I legally if I use these are a scare tactic. About half the 5 cars have returned defiant even after the letters were placed on their cars.
There have been a few streets that started damaging cars and of course the same people who park in considerately in front of drives don't waste any time going to the local fish wrapper to complain their car has been keyed.
After about 5 years of local streets being over run with 95% hospital staff parking in and clogging and in some cases blocking people's drives the council have finally put in permit zones. This has pushed the same people who won't pay £1.50 for local park and ride and the hospital permits. As out street is private we have now been over run in the last few weeks. We had 1/2 previously and the local NHW guy used to see them off but his wife has just died and he has understandably had other things on his mind.
I never really appreciated the job he did until the last few weeks were we have been swamped. I don't have much sympathy for them as its not at nightworkers it's office hours and the park and ride is £1.50 all day and not far. Unfortunately after years of doing this some of these folk have become rather uncaring and nasty if you complain they hang over your drive or block it I have this week issued notices asking to cease and desist and pointing out it is a private road and the hospital are doing a bulletin to staff. I have stated it is private and from1st December a parking enforcement company will be fining drivers.
Now we don't want to go down this route but I have got hold of 20 parking tickets from a company with window wallets etc.
How am I legally if I use these are a scare tactic. About half the 5 cars have returned defiant even after the letters were placed on their cars.
There have been a few streets that started damaging cars and of course the same people who park in considerately in front of drives don't waste any time going to the local fish wrapper to complain their car has been keyed.
There is a possibility that someone might complain that fake tickets amount to unlawful harassment, or even demanding money with menaces. In general, faking and bluffing not a good idea. No point making a threat unless it is a real one. Also, the selfish parker tends to be a Peepipoo type Republic of Me solipsist and will just ignore tickets. So no good unless actually enforceable. As to that, see below.
Other options -
1. Club together to fund a gate and give residents keys. BUT NB issues re emergency service access and deliveries while out.
2. Ask DVLA for reg keeper deets of persistent trespassers and sue them for trespass, seeking injunctions to restrain trespass. PROBLEM: RK may deny being driver. CCTV? Intrusive. Grainy images unclear. All of this is costly.
2A. An idea: You could obtain a "person unknown" injunction against "the driver of vehicle WN K3R", and slap a copy of that on the car. That would be enforceable by Contempt of Court sanctions. Take a photo of the Court Order on the car. Costly.
3. Club together and hire a parking enforcement company to issue tickets - enforceability now backed up by recent Supreme Court decision (Beavis). PROBLEM: cost again. Parking companies may say "too small a gig for us, not likely to make us a profit, not interested".
4. Do your own legal enforcement via clear signs and tickets - but mega hassle actually suing all the twannocks for 80 quid or whatever, and you would not be running a business with the Parking Eye model, so the t
ts could still argue penalty, Beavis decision notwithstanding. This one is a dud.
My suggestion: polite but intensive leaflet and sign post campaign - keep being firm, polite, get rid of all but the most selfish. Then seek person unknown injunction vs the die hards?
If anyone says that putting a leaflet on a car is criminal damage, ignore the tt. It ain't.
Other options -
1. Club together to fund a gate and give residents keys. BUT NB issues re emergency service access and deliveries while out.
2. Ask DVLA for reg keeper deets of persistent trespassers and sue them for trespass, seeking injunctions to restrain trespass. PROBLEM: RK may deny being driver. CCTV? Intrusive. Grainy images unclear. All of this is costly.
2A. An idea: You could obtain a "person unknown" injunction against "the driver of vehicle WN K3R", and slap a copy of that on the car. That would be enforceable by Contempt of Court sanctions. Take a photo of the Court Order on the car. Costly.
3. Club together and hire a parking enforcement company to issue tickets - enforceability now backed up by recent Supreme Court decision (Beavis). PROBLEM: cost again. Parking companies may say "too small a gig for us, not likely to make us a profit, not interested".
4. Do your own legal enforcement via clear signs and tickets - but mega hassle actually suing all the twannocks for 80 quid or whatever, and you would not be running a business with the Parking Eye model, so the t
ts could still argue penalty, Beavis decision notwithstanding. This one is a dud.My suggestion: polite but intensive leaflet and sign post campaign - keep being firm, polite, get rid of all but the most selfish. Then seek person unknown injunction vs the die hards?
If anyone says that putting a leaflet on a car is criminal damage, ignore the t
t. It ain't. Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 28th November 10:26
Blocking in is unlawful, and may result in the tts damaging the OP's car or other property. What if the selfish parker drives a dented shed and just rams his way out, bashing up the OP's cherished shiny wagon? Also, what if things kick off and there are fisticuffs? Plod may arrive and arrest everyone. Hassle.
ts damaging the OP's car or other property. What if the selfish parker drives a dented shed and just rams his way out, bashing up the OP's cherished shiny wagon? Also, what if things kick off and there are fisticuffs? Plod may arrive and arrest everyone. Hassle.How about Clamping signs put up down the street, then buy a couple of clamps and park your car and a neighbours on the road and "clamp" them with a ticket on the window big Clamped notice on the side window for all the parkers to see and scare them off?
Gate the road and lock occasionally in the morning past 9am, with signs saying "Private road no parking, Gate locked at 3.30pm". Lock it a few times at that time and let them out when they come back and have to knock/ ring to be let out, make it a hassle and an embarrassment rather than a confrontation?
Gate the road and lock occasionally in the morning past 9am, with signs saying "Private road no parking, Gate locked at 3.30pm". Lock it a few times at that time and let them out when they come back and have to knock/ ring to be let out, make it a hassle and an embarrassment rather than a confrontation?
Edited by Tampon on Saturday 28th November 10:31
I had this with two properties I owned, one after the other. The second was an unadopted 'private' road off a High Street, so the locals has become accustomed to parking there over the years.
There wasn't much recourse. IANAL, but I uncovered some suggestion that unless proved otherwise the householders fronting the unadopted road 'owned' or were liable for their frontage up to the center of the road. This came to light when people started asking for cable and gas installations down the road, but were then hit with the problem of who was liable for the contractor's bills.
This may be absolute tosh, but it was enough to see off the proposals for trenches as every house would get a bill.
In the matter of parking; the residents resorted to cones, blocking cars in and so forth, but that led to thefts, fights, and cars being damaged. Plod arrived on several occasions, but admitted they could not do much, other than keep the peace.
I think BV's suggestions have it, a gate or barrier is an option but they eventually become harassment for delivery drivers, they are vandalised, and the council highways may object if emergency vehicles can't get in.
'Private Frontage - No parking' signs might help, individual options like those hinged parking posts with keys, and so on.
In the end we had an entire road of ten or so houses at each other's throats about who would pay for what, and I sold up at a loss just to get out of the psychosis and anger it caused.
There wasn't much recourse. IANAL, but I uncovered some suggestion that unless proved otherwise the householders fronting the unadopted road 'owned' or were liable for their frontage up to the center of the road. This came to light when people started asking for cable and gas installations down the road, but were then hit with the problem of who was liable for the contractor's bills.
This may be absolute tosh, but it was enough to see off the proposals for trenches as every house would get a bill.
In the matter of parking; the residents resorted to cones, blocking cars in and so forth, but that led to thefts, fights, and cars being damaged. Plod arrived on several occasions, but admitted they could not do much, other than keep the peace.
I think BV's suggestions have it, a gate or barrier is an option but they eventually become harassment for delivery drivers, they are vandalised, and the council highways may object if emergency vehicles can't get in.
'Private Frontage - No parking' signs might help, individual options like those hinged parking posts with keys, and so on.
In the end we had an entire road of ten or so houses at each other's throats about who would pay for what, and I sold up at a loss just to get out of the psychosis and anger it caused.
Edited by Slushbox on Saturday 28th November 10:34
Selfish tts now know that private clamping is illegal. They can in any event see that there is no actual clamp on the car. They will laugh it off. Now you have just created litter in your street. Also, the selfish tt, being an entitled little , might complain of unlawful threats. Police may say no case, but do you want the hassle of dull doorstep chats with bored plod? Also PCSOs and junior plod often adopt silly "you are not allowed to say anything nasty to anyone, ever" approach and wouldn't always side with the good guys.
ts now know that private clamping is illegal. They can in any event see that there is no actual clamp on the car. They will laugh it off. Now you have just created litter in your street. Also, the selfish tt, being an entitled little , might complain of unlawful threats. Police may say no case, but do you want the hassle of dull doorstep chats with bored plod? Also PCSOs and junior plod often adopt silly "you are not allowed to say anything nasty to anyone, ever" approach and wouldn't always side with the good guys.BV ditto: My suggestion: polite but intensive leaflet and sign post campaign - keep being firm, polite, get rid of all but the most selfish. Then seek person unknown injunction vs the die hards?
We have a slight problem now in our 'private' car park with visitor's cars, as we don't know who is a visiting rellie and who is a vile interloper. The council got involved after complaints about 'all cars' and starting making noises about permits, clamps and so on. So the complainers backed down.
I have an allocated parking bay (at £1200 a year) which was being used by a local health visitor when I was out, despite being labelled as 'Private'. So I'd come back and find it full of NHS stickered Vauxhall Astra.
I asked the guy not to use it but he said he was entitled to park where he liked. So I photographed the car while he was there and told him not to came back or the local paper would get the pic. (Then I ran off.) Problem solved.
I think an intensive leaflet campaign will reduce the problem down to the diehards, but it does need to backed up with some form of achievable action. Evidence gathering, at least.
We have a slight problem now in our 'private' car park with visitor's cars, as we don't know who is a visiting rellie and who is a vile interloper. The council got involved after complaints about 'all cars' and starting making noises about permits, clamps and so on. So the complainers backed down.
I have an allocated parking bay (at £1200 a year) which was being used by a local health visitor when I was out, despite being labelled as 'Private'. So I'd come back and find it full of NHS stickered Vauxhall Astra.
I asked the guy not to use it but he said he was entitled to park where he liked. So I photographed the car while he was there and told him not to came back or the local paper would get the pic. (Then I ran off.) Problem solved.
I think an intensive leaflet campaign will reduce the problem down to the diehards, but it does need to backed up with some form of achievable action. Evidence gathering, at least.
Edited by Slushbox on Saturday 28th November 10:54
Tampon said:
...
Gate the road and lock occasionally in the morning past 9am, with signs saying "Private road no parking, Gate locked at 3.30pm". Lock it a few times at that time and let them out when they come back and have to knock/ ring to be let out, make it a hassle and an embarrassment rather than a confrontation?
Not a terrible idea, but some of these permanently entitled types will make it a confrontation regardless of the peaceful intent of the residents, and they might knock on the door of a house occupied by a vulnerable older person, and cause great unpleasantness. Gate the road and lock occasionally in the morning past 9am, with signs saying "Private road no parking, Gate locked at 3.30pm". Lock it a few times at that time and let them out when they come back and have to knock/ ring to be let out, make it a hassle and an embarrassment rather than a confrontation?
There is, of course, no one perfect solution. All the workable ideas have their flaws.
I would try the signs and leaflets and maybe some targeted DVLA stuff on the most stubborn trespassers, but wouldn't rule out a gate IF you can build consensus amongst the neighbours. You only need one neighbour who says "I am not interested", or "I want all my friends to be able to park here, I told them that they could", and the group effort could fall apart.
A private permit scheme only works if someone is prepared to enforce against non permit parking by civil court action. Who wants that hassle?
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
505diff said:
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
That could be worth a go, if the costs are reasonable. Smart business thinking by someone!505diff said:
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
That business model looks good - especially as you only "enforce" the cars you want to (i.e. friends and visotirs shouldn't get caught out) and someone else deals with all the admin around signs, PCN and collection.I don't think stickers are a good idea personally, as you're getting back into the territory of persistent offenders maybe wanting revenge (plus legal ramifications).
Ian
505diff said:
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
When you click on the flashpark link it has BPA approved symbol.But doesn't seem to be on this month's BPA list ?
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/approved-operators
Breadvan72 said:
Blocking in is unlawful, and may result in the tts damaging the OP's car or other property. What if the selfish parker drives a dented shed and just rams his way out, bashing up the OP's cherished shiny wagon? Also, what if things kick off and there are fisticuffs? Plod may arrive and arrest everyone. Hassle.
It may be unlawful or it may be a grey area or it may be a case of the police aren't interested or it may be that prosecuting someone for it would be problematical for whatever reason. But for practical purposes, I know quite a few people who have blocked in cars parked where they should not be parked and based on this experience:ts damaging the OP's car or other property. What if the selfish parker drives a dented shed and just rams his way out, bashing up the OP's cherished shiny wagon? Also, what if things kick off and there are fisticuffs? Plod may arrive and arrest everyone. Hassle.- blocking in works
- they stop parking there
- plod has never been involved
speedyguy said:
505diff said:
A company I deal with had the same problem on a driveway they used these people and it has done the trick http://www.flashpark.co.uk/
When you click on the flashpark link it has BPA approved symbol.But doesn't seem to be on this month's BPA list ?
http://www.britishparking.co.uk/approved-operators
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