Private road and parking issues

[Granfondo]

Dog st under the door handles would be rather unpleasant!

[anonymous-user]

Quite apart from the infantilising element of meeting bad actions with bad or worse actions, all of the retaliatory actions suggested run into two practical problems. These are:

(1) the selfish parkers, as noted above, know where the people who might take such actions live.

(2) the selfish parkers are evidently unpleasant people, as a decent person doesn't just help himself to the use of someone else's property, and some of these dicks might get ornery. This could result in damage to cars or houses, shouty confrontations, and even smacks in the gob, possibly with attendant plod-related hassle.

[Greendubber]

Its not anyones property though!

Its a road maintained by the residents not owned by them. Anyone can walk down it, drive on it, park on it. You can get caught speeding, locked up for drink drive its no different to any other road other than the fact the council dont maintain it.

Private road with no other restrictions means its purely 'unadopted' by the council.

[tvrgit]

Breadvan72 said:

Can you provide some authority for that proposition?

PS: "some bloke on peepipoo says so" is not authority.

See my long post yesterday. People respect your experience. Don't get lippy with the experience of others.

[uk_vette]

suveyor_101 said:

I live in a private street with mostly retired people.

After about 5 years of local streets being over run with 95% hospital staff parking in and clogging and in some cases blocking people's drives the council have finally put in permit zones. This has pushed the same people who won't pay £1.50 for local park and ride and the hospital permits. As out street is private we have now been over run in the last few weeks. We had 1/2 previously and the local NHW guy used to see them off but his wife has just died and he has understandably had other things on his mind.

I never really appreciated the job he did until the last few weeks were we have been swamped. I don't have much sympathy for them as its not at nightworkers it's office hours and the park and ride is £1.50 all day and not far. Unfortunately after years of doing this some of these folk have become rather uncaring and nasty if you complain they hang over your drive or block it I have this week issued notices asking to cease and desist and pointing out it is a private road and the hospital are doing a bulletin to staff. I have stated it is private and from1st December a parking enforcement company will be fining drivers.

Now we don't want to go down this route but I have got hold of 20 parking tickets from a company with window wallets etc.

How am I legally if I use these are a scare tactic. About half the 5 cars have returned defiant even after the letters were placed on their cars.

There have been a few streets that started damaging cars and of course the same people who park in considerately in front of drives don't waste any time going to the local fish wrapper to complain their car has been keyed.

feck me, but that's hard reading,

Gave up after 1st para.

[surveyor]

Greendubber said:

Its not anyones property though!

Its a road maintained by the residents not owned by them. Anyone can walk down it, drive on it, park on it. You can get caught speeding, locked up for drink drive its no different to any other road other than the fact the council dont maintain it.

Private road with no other restrictions means its purely 'unadopted' by the council.

I'm by far unconvinced by this advice. For a start it may well be that someone does own the road. It may be the house behind that piece of road, or a company set up expressly to deal with the road and it's maintenance. You are really just making a wild guess.

[Greendubber]

surveyor said:

I'm by far unconvinced by this advice. For a start it may well be that someone does own the road. It may be the house behind that piece of road, or a company set up expressly to deal with the road and it's maintenance. You are really just making a wild guess.

I must imagine the road I live on then...

You can park on an unadopted road with no restrictions....

[tvrgit]

surveyor said:

I'm by far unconvinced by this advice. For a start it may well be that someone does own the road. It may be the house behind that piece of road, or a company set up expressly to deal with the road and it's maintenance. You are really just making a wild guess.

yes but it doesn't matter who OWNS it - if there is a public right of access over it, the owners cannot control who uses it.

[surveyor]

tvrgit said:

surveyor said:

I'm by far unconvinced by this advice. For a start it may well be that someone does own the road. It may be the house behind that piece of road, or a company set up expressly to deal with the road and it's maintenance. You are really just making a wild guess.

yes but it doesn't matter who OWNS it - if there is a public right of access over it, the owners cannot control who uses it.

Again very much depends on whether there is public right of access over the road. There is also a thought of mine that does the right of access include the right to remain - eg park.

[tvrgit]

surveyor said:

tvrgit said:

if there is a public right of access over it, the owners cannot control who uses it.

Again very much depends on whether there is public right of access over the road

Well we agree on that!

surveyor said:

There is also a thought of mine that does the right of access include the right to remain - eg park.

It is the public right of access that makes it a "road" - and if it is a "road" (adopted or not) then parking controls have to comply with the Road Traffic Regulation Act (i.e. yellow lines, signs and Traffic Regulation Orders).

[colin_p]

Surely the way to deal with it is first to get some signs made and put them up. If people don't know it is a private road they don't know not to park there.

Then, on one of those non-days-off work we all have, the ones where you do odd jobs and bits and bobs, get up a bit earlier and turn the cars away at the top of the road. It might need to be done a few times and may a neighbor or two would help as well.

[anonymous-user]

tvrgit said:

Breadvan72 said:

Can you provide some authority for that proposition?

PS: "some bloke on peepipoo says so" is not authority.

See my long post yesterday. People respect your experience. Don't get lippy with the experience of others.

I don't take orders from you. If it bothers you when you get challenged for posting tosh, one suggested solution is to post less tosh! Your long post merely trots out some extracts from statutes, but you have neglected (perhaps because you are unaware of) the case law explaining what a road is. The public has to have a legal right to access the land in question. You have simply assumed the existence of such a legal right, but there is no basis for such an assumption, and the OP's post is more indicative of there being no such right. Quite often, residents of private roads own the plots in front of their houses, much as people tend to own driveways and so on.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 29th November 20:44

[tvrgit]

Breadvan72 said:

tvrgit said:

Breadvan72 said:

Can you provide some authority for that proposition?

PS: "some bloke on peepipoo says so" is not authority.

See my long post yesterday. People respect your experience. Don't get lippy with the experience of others.

I don't take orders from you. If it bothers you when you get challenged for posting tosh, one suggested solution is to post less tosh! Your long post merely trots out some extracts from statutes, but you have neglected (perhaps because you are unaware of) the case law explaining what a road is. The public has to have a legal right to access the land in question. In the OP's case, they don't have that legal right, as the residents own the plots in front of their houses, much as people tend to own driveways and so on.

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. If there is a public right of access, then ownership of the plots over which the road passes is not relevant. The only difference between an adopted road and an unadapted road is who maintains it, not who may use it.

A private access or a driveway, as you say, has no public right of access. A private road, has. That's what makes it a "road".

[anonymous-user]

tvrgit said:

surveyor said:

I'm by far unconvinced by this advice. For a start it may well be that someone does own the road. It may be the house behind that piece of road, or a company set up expressly to deal with the road and it's maintenance. You are really just making a wild guess.

yes but it doesn't matter who OWNS it - if there is a public right of access over it, the owners cannot control who uses it.

There isn't a legal right of access over every bit of privately owned land. BTW, the suggestion made by someone else that the road isn't anyone's property is daft. Every bit of the UK is someone's property.

Edited by anonymous-user on Sunday 29th November 20:57

[anonymous-user]

tvrgit said:

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. If there is a public right of access, then ownership of the plots over which the road passes is not relevant. The only difference between an adopted road and an unadapted road is who maintains it, not who may use it.

A private access or a driveway, as you say, has no public right of access. A private road, has. That's what makes it a "road".

There has to be a legal right of access. Thus ownership matters. The owner of a private road can, absent any established easement or other countervailing legal right, deny a legal right of access to the public. See for example the roads that link various parts of the Inns of Court in London. The public sometimes use those roads, but they have no legal right to do so (they are closed once a year to reinforce this point and prevent rights of way being acquired). Parking on those roads is controlled by the landowners. I don't make the rules. This is what the Law Lords decided some years ago.

[tvrgit]

Breadvan72 said:

tvrgit said:

I'm sorry but that's incorrect. If there is a public right of access, then ownership of the plots over which the road passes is not relevant. The only difference between an adopted road and an unadapted road is who maintains it, not who may use it.

A private access or a driveway, as you say, has no public right of access. A private road, has. That's what makes it a "road".

There has to be a legal right of access. Thus ownership matters. The owner of a private road can, absent any established easement or other countervailing legal right, deny a legal right of access to the public. See for example the roads that link various parts of the Inns of Court in London. The public sometimes use those roads, but they have no legal right to do so (they are closed once a year to reinforce this point and prevent rights of way being acquired). Parking on those roads is controlled by the landowners. I don't make the rules. This is what the Law Lords decided some years ago.

Yes I was aware of that, I understand that, and agree with what you say.

However, if the private road has never been gated in the past, or controlled in any way, and a public right of access has been established, then that right cannot thereafter be extinguished at the whim of the landowners. To be clear, I am talking about access over a privately-maintained highway, not just "private land" or an access or driveway.

To be fair, we don't know exactly what the situation is with the OPs road - I am merely cautioning that he and his neighbours would have no right to control who uses their road if that public right of access has been established, and as others have said, may find themselves in trouble if they try.

[SVTRick]

Granfondo said:

Dog st under the door handles would be rather unpleasant!

Nice one, terrible these dog owners that don't clear up after them.


Get an old burnt out vehicle from a scrap yard on loan and leave it positioned in the road.

Then just mention to the drivers that there has been a spate of cars being set alight and its not a good idea to leave your shed parked here.

[Vee]

If it is a Private road then I'd be blocking cars IN. Not individually but perhaps a van that has broken down about 20 yards in so residents have had to dump their cars behind it at the entrance. They're on a private road so it doesn't matter does it ?
Repeat every so often and they'll soon get the message as the inconvenience of not being able to get their cars out after a day at work will not be worth the hassle.
Short term you'll have some confrontation to deal with though.

Edited by Vee on Sunday 29th November 21:49

[Roo]

Breadvan72 said:

There isn't a legal right of access over every bit of privately owned land. BTW, the suggestion made by someone else that the road isn't anyone's property is daft. Every bit of the UK is someone's property.

Edited by Breadvan72 on Sunday 29th November 20:57

I live in a private road. It used to belong to the house on the main road that sold their garden for development in the thirties. The owners of that house, and road, tried to sell it to us residents about fifteen years ago but no one was interested.

I assume the original owners still own it then, unless they can just relinquish the land?

[silverfoxcc]

On a BBC parking prog a few weeks ago, the residents did the following
They got their own car out one morning and measured up the parking so they were spaced far enough apart to stop anybody parking in the gaps. A few weeks intermitent use of this and the road was left alone by the freeloaders