Has Tyson Fury commited a hate crime

[MrBarry123]

JustinP1 said:

First - it's religious rhetoric. Who cares?

Second, since when is it automatic in language when someone states 'three things have to happen' that they mean that they are all equal in weight or importance?

There's three things that need to happen before I am made Prime Minister:

1) I need to be elected by my constituency.

2) I need to be made party leader and win a general election.

3) I need to stop typing on Pistonheads.


Now my post is over, I am clearly 33.3% of the way to being Prime Minister...? Unless I specifically state otherwise?

I agree that what he says doesn't change my life however it does go to show what kind of a person he is.

And no, your example is poor because what you are speaking about is a literal outcome whereas Fury was speaking metaphorically. In order for your example to be relevant you would have had to say...

"In order for me to become Prime Minister I believe three things needs to happen:
1. I need to be elected by my constituency.
2. I need to be made party leader and win a general election.
3. I need to stop typing on PistonHeads."

It's perfectly fair for someone to assume that, unless you clarify further, you believe all 3 of those are equally important contributory factors in you becoming PM.

[Durzel]

As ridiculous as his statements are in modern day context I can't help but find amusement in the overwrought hand wringing that they've produced. I mean "hate crime", just lol.

Those eager to find themselves offended, or in modern day vernacular, "triggered" are just as irritating as anything the self-proclaimed Gypsy King might say.

For the benefit of the cheap seats I don't agree with anything he said, before anyone gets themselves into a state.

[JustinP1]

I see your argument Mr Barry.

However, you still cannot presume that just because someone 'believes' in a number of stated things that they all have equal importance to them, or are as good or bad in their eyes.

[MrBarry123]

JustinP1 said:

I see your argument Mr Barry.

However, you still cannot presume that just because someone 'believes' in a number of stated things that they all have equal importance to them, or are as good or bad in their eyes.

And equally, I see your argument.

The short of it is that Fury needs a better PR person if he's going to stop stting on his achievements - especially now that he's a role model for so many kids.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

MrBarry123 said:

His comment was "There are only three things that need to be accomplished before the Devil comes home. One of them is homosexuality being legal in countries, one of them is abortion and the other is paedophilia."

From that comment he gives them equal weighting in them contributing to the "Devil comes home" prediction and at no point marks one as more serious than the others.

They might all be equal to the devil, but not necessarily to him. He's a total moron, but I doubt even he is stupid enough to think those three are equal. And he has never said anything to suggest he thinks they are.

[JustinP1]

MrBarry123 said:

JustinP1 said:

I see your argument Mr Barry.

However, you still cannot presume that just because someone 'believes' in a number of stated things that they all have equal importance to them, or are as good or bad in their eyes.

And equally, I see your argument.

The short of it is that Fury needs a better PR person if he's going to stop stting on his achievements - especially now that he's a role model for so many kids.

With that, I agree.

If you saw some of the behind the scenes stuff, compared to other world boxers his training and 'team' is very basic. He's of traveller heritage and It's basically his family training him in a ring in a lock-up on an industrial estate and him going for runs with them in the Lake District.

Regardless of my views about him as a person, I do find that fact refreshing at the top end of boxing.

I think much of his 'gameplan' was to be the wildcard before the fight. Come across as being a bit mental, wear silly suits, say ridiculous things in public. One can argue whether this worked or not as those antics followed through to the ring in part, however, in the ring his opponent hadn't thrown so few punches in a fight for more than a decade.

[fatjon]

I share none of his opinions or beliefs but I think free speech has to be an absolute notwithstanding direct incitement to violence or discrimination. It's the difference between saying "I hate group X" and "you should kill group X" or "you should not employ group X" for example. One is a legitimately held opinion and it maybe quite correct or quite incorrect depending on who group X are, the other two are clearly incitement to commit illegal acts. I don't think Fury over stepped from opinion or belief into incitement with what he said.

Not talking about unpleasant opinions just puts them in the dark corners of society, it doesn't make them go away. Should he be banned from anything for his opinions? I don't think so, if people really feel that he is an unpleasant tosser then nominate him for SPOTY and the votes may tell. I would venture to suggest that public patience with PC now is at such a low ebb that he may well win purely as a protest vote. That is what the lefties, the PC and the professionally offended are really worried about.

[anonymous-user]

The irony is that whatever group claim to be offended in these situations, their complaining just makes a trillion other people aware of what was said too, 99.9% of who will be saying whats the big deal.

[sugerbear]

V6Pushfit said:

The irony is that whatever group claim to be offended in these situations, their complaining just makes a trillion other people aware of what was said too, 99% of who will be saying whats the big deal.

No, the irony is the 99.9% will be thinking what a bellend Tyson Fury is, the other .1% will be convinced that what there are 99.9% people that think like they do.

[dudleybloke]

You would think liberals would be defending his religious beliefs like they do with certain others.

[sealtt]

The poor, poor man. For he is the real victim. This is clearly a cry for help. He is ruthlessly forced by greedy managers and a depraved public to violently attack other men on a worldwide stage. A pacifist at heart, every swing he takes chips away a bit of his soul, but the endless pressure from a sick & relentless society forces him to fight on, leaving him little more than a broken shell of a man, his beliefs & morality sold away for a little light entertainment.

[Legacywr]

His last fight was so awful, they may as well have put bells around their ankles, and called it Morris Dancing!

[popeyewhite]

MrBarry123 said:

The short of it is that Fury needs a better PR person if he's going to stop stting on his achievements - especially now that he's a role model for so many kids.

Oh honestly save the 'role model' rubbish. Fury is trained to beat other men up, not display the ethical skills of a classically trained philosopher. He'll still be a role model to kids who want to learn to beat others up.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Any kid who picks Tyson Fury as a role model needs better parents.

[anonymous-user]

Oh come on guys - hes British, a bit of a character, and a decent chap. Hes a role model as hes a sportsman who won a major title (albeit just removed) and he does a lot more to win a match than someone kicking a pigs bladder about. Hes a pugilist yes, but since when has a philosopher been a role model I cant see Plato or Socrates being imitated in the playground anyway so a bit of healthy fisticuffs during morning break wont harm and they're milk teeth anyway at that age.

[Jasandjules]

Leftie thought policing once more.

[Devil2575]

MrBarry123 said:

He's a vile, bigoted man and doesn't deserve to have been nominated for SPOTY; it'll be a disgrace if he wins. If Klitschko fails to beat him in the rematch, I look forward to Anthony Joshua putting him in his place (provided AJ is given time to develop properly) when they finally meet.

Regardless of the bravado seen on here, comments like, "I'm not sexist. I believe a woman's best place is in the kitchen and on her back. That's my personal belief. Making me a good cup of tea, that's what I believe." have no place in today's world.

I believe the hate crime has been reported in response to Fury basically saying homosexuality and abortion were as bad as paedophilia. I wouldn't see that as him having committed a hate crime however it does go to show what a nasty, misguided and uneducated piece of work he is.

I agree with this.

He's an ahole of the highest order but a hate crime?

[Devil2575]

fatjon said:

Not talking about unpleasant opinions just puts them in the dark corners of society, it doesn't make them go away.

I agree. Discussing them and deconstructing them is a far better at making them go away.

The problem arises because large sections of our society accept and even promote belief in ideas that are basically unfounded.

On the one hand we teach children science and then on the other we teach them about "God".

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Unfortunately, most people, when they throw away the comfort blanket of God, reach for an equally bizarre replacement, hence the inexorable rise of homeopathy, feng sui, healing crystals, mystics and a variety of other new age mumbo jumbo nonsense.

The sad truth is, most people just need something stupid to believe in, to fill a "stupid belief" hole in their psyche.

Critical thinking has never been at a lower ebb.

Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Wednesday 9th December 16:32

[Billsnemesis]

fatjon said:

That is what the lefties, the PC and the professionally offended are really worried about.

I am not left wing, not PC and not professionally offended but I am worried at the effect an award of SPOTY to Tyson Fury would become. It would legitimize views that matters such as abortion, homosexuality and paedophilia are all on one side (the "wrong" side) of a line and that what is "right" is on the other side.

That is why they are being seen as equivalent in his argument.

What if he had said "all that is required to bring about the end of the world is a female prime minister, the fall of the Berlin wall and a black US president. Who in the 1950's or 1960's would have thought that would happen?"

His views are demeaning to women and the LGBTI community and just as the comments above would now be considered utterly unacceptable, even if expressed as personal opinions, so his views are not to be supported. Giving him the oxygen of publicity and endorsement which would come from winning SPOTY would give him reason to believe that his views are justified and enjoy widespread support - and that is where Donald Trump comes in.

I have no doubt he should be dropped from SPOTY. Personal views are one thing but public endorsement from an organisation such as the BBC is not appropriate and should not be considered acceptable.