Has Tyson Fury commited a hate crime
Discussion
DocJock said:
Devil2575 said:
_dobbo_ said:
Sorry, you don't think I'm right that most blokes don't talk like this?
Some blokes talk like this, some don't. Seems fairly simple to me. Spouting some psychological pseudo babble to make your point is just confirmation bias.
If I heard someone talking like that about a woman, two things would happen. First, I would think he was a knuckle dragging moron, second I would avoid future conversations with that person.
This.Some blokes talk like this, some don't. Seems fairly simple to me. Spouting some psychological pseudo babble to make your point is just confirmation bias.
If I heard someone talking like that about a woman, two things would happen. First, I would think he was a knuckle dragging moron, second I would avoid future conversations with that person.
I makes it far easier to spot the idiots.
Pannywagon said:
No - I got the accusation perfectly thanks.
My point is that I can disagree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it and liberalism is starting to become pretty totalitarian and intolerant when it forces everyone to comply with accepted thought or face the consequences professionally and publicly. (This is what this is)
IANAL but my understanding of what constitutes a hate crime is this.
1 - A standard crime (assault, burglary, vandalism et al) aggravated by some prejudice on the grounds of race, sex, creed, ability or sexuality.
2 - Inciting of violence towards people based on the same prejudices.
3 - Direct discrimination or harassment owing to those prejudices.
4 - Saying something with the clear intent of causing alarm or distress.
Merely stating one's opinion without any of those things above is patently not a hate crime and no amount of gnashing of teeth and bawling about it is going to change that.
You have the right to be offended but you do not have the right to silence any and all opinions that you disagree with.
Brilliant summary there. He's gone on to quote the bible, and ok its a bit bizarre, but if we don't watch out there will be someone complaining about that too in case somebody somewhere is offended. What is missing from all this is having 'a person' who is offended- people defend things on behalf of others when those others couldn't give a toss anyway. My point is that I can disagree with what you say but I'll defend your right to say it and liberalism is starting to become pretty totalitarian and intolerant when it forces everyone to comply with accepted thought or face the consequences professionally and publicly. (This is what this is)
IANAL but my understanding of what constitutes a hate crime is this.
1 - A standard crime (assault, burglary, vandalism et al) aggravated by some prejudice on the grounds of race, sex, creed, ability or sexuality.
2 - Inciting of violence towards people based on the same prejudices.
3 - Direct discrimination or harassment owing to those prejudices.
4 - Saying something with the clear intent of causing alarm or distress.
Merely stating one's opinion without any of those things above is patently not a hate crime and no amount of gnashing of teeth and bawling about it is going to change that.
You have the right to be offended but you do not have the right to silence any and all opinions that you disagree with.
The gay people I know just laugh at these things and get on with their lives - and after all they are capable of the same or far worse themselves. He hasn't incited race hatred so all of this is a non issue.
Who, here, is genuinely offended for themselves as a member of the social groups he fired off about??
Devil2575 said:
I agree.
I makes it far easier to spot the idiots.
I'm the same. I class myself as quite liberal and although free speech doesn't exist in this country (never has as long as i can remember) i wish it did.I makes it far easier to spot the idiots.
I'd defend people's rights to say hurtful and hateful things if they wanted to do so but i would feel no empathy towards them if certain parts of society shunned them for doing so.
Billsnemesis said:
fatjon said:
That is what the lefties, the PC and the professionally offended are really worried about.
I am not left wing, not PC and not professionally offended but I am worried at the effect an award of SPOTY to Tyson Fury would become. It would legitimize views that matters such as abortion, homosexuality and paedophilia are all on one side (the "wrong" side) of a line and that what is "right" is on the other side.That is why they are being seen as equivalent in his argument.
What if he had said "all that is required to bring about the end of the world is a female prime minister, the fall of the Berlin wall and a black US president. Who in the 1950's or 1960's would have thought that would happen?"
His views are demeaning to women and the LGBTI community and just as the comments above would now be considered utterly unacceptable, even if expressed as personal opinions, so his views are not to be supported. Giving him the oxygen of publicity and endorsement which would come from winning SPOTY would give him reason to believe that his views are justified and enjoy widespread support - and that is where Donald Trump comes in.
I have no doubt he should be dropped from SPOTY. Personal views are one thing but public endorsement from an organisation such as the BBC is not appropriate and should not be considered acceptable.
Don't get me wrong, I don't like his opinions any more than you do but I like your opinion of silencing him as his opinions don't coincide with yours as being a much worse societal ill. Allowing him to be judged on "personality" would not legitimise his views on any of those subjects. It would legitimise his right to hold those views and allow society to give him a time honoured reply.
DonkeyApple said:
If he were a Pakistani, most of the people claiming his words aren't a 'hate crime' would be screaming for him to be sent back to his religion of peace homeland.
It's also amusing that almost no one has attacked his view on women just homosexuals.
The chap is a stupid, ill educated oik who as a result has been indoctrinated with far too much of the fairly b
ks story stuff. The fact that some people feel that to point out that he is a backward little savage makes someone a 'liberal' is slightly baffling.
Of course he cannot be considered for some form of sporting prize in this country with those views. He is free to have those views and frankly, he is free to speak them and advocate them but nothing should be done to actually endorse them.
Removing him from the competition does not silence him or penalise him. It merely recognises that none of these views are sociably acceptable or correct.
I don't say this often but I agree with you 100% on this.It's also amusing that almost no one has attacked his view on women just homosexuals.
The chap is a stupid, ill educated oik who as a result has been indoctrinated with far too much of the fairly b
ks story stuff. The fact that some people feel that to point out that he is a backward little savage makes someone a 'liberal' is slightly baffling. Of course he cannot be considered for some form of sporting prize in this country with those views. He is free to have those views and frankly, he is free to speak them and advocate them but nothing should be done to actually endorse them.
Removing him from the competition does not silence him or penalise him. It merely recognises that none of these views are sociably acceptable or correct.
The funniest thing is that he is hung up on the bible and the evils of homosexuality, and the behaviour of others, but seems unconcerned about the behaviour of his own father, who I understand was recently released from jail after gouging another man's eye out! What's the bible's take on gouging someone's eye out in a pub brawl?
It's also mildly amusing that there are only 4 references to the abomination of homosexuality in the whole bible, but 25 references to the abomination of eating shellfish. Maybe an oyster bar should attract more wrath from Christian nutcases than a gay bar.
It's also mildly amusing that there are only 4 references to the abomination of homosexuality in the whole bible, but 25 references to the abomination of eating shellfish. Maybe an oyster bar should attract more wrath from Christian nutcases than a gay bar.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
It's also mildly amusing that there are only 4 references to the abomination of homosexuality in the whole bible, but 25 references to the abomination of eating shellfish. Maybe an oyster bar should attract more wrath from Christian nutcases than a gay bar.
What about the Blue Oyster Bar?TwigtheWonderkid said:
The funniest thing is that he is hung up on the bible and the evils of homosexuality, and the behaviour of others, but seems unconcerned about the behaviour of his own father, who I understand was recently released from jail after gouging another man's eye out! What's the bible's take on gouging someone's eye out in a pub brawl?
It's also mildly amusing that there are only 4 references to the abomination of homosexuality in the whole bible, but 25 references to the abomination of eating shellfish. Maybe an oyster bar should attract more wrath from Christian nutcases than a gay bar.
I think the bible is pretty explicit on what the punishment should be in the case of causing the loss of an eye.It's also mildly amusing that there are only 4 references to the abomination of homosexuality in the whole bible, but 25 references to the abomination of eating shellfish. Maybe an oyster bar should attract more wrath from Christian nutcases than a gay bar.
I for one will be very disappointed if Fury doesn't personally enforce the doctrine of "an eye for an eye" on his father.
rohrl said:
I think the bible is pretty explicit on what the punishment should be in the case of causing the loss of an eye.
I for one will be very disappointed if Fury doesn't personally enforce the doctrine of "an eye for an eye" on his father.
I wonder if he shows the same disapproval towards people that wear clothes from mixed fabrics also.I for one will be very disappointed if Fury doesn't personally enforce the doctrine of "an eye for an eye" on his father.
Retroman said:
I wonder if he shows the same disapproval towards people that wear clothes from mixed fabrics also.
Yes, that's punishable by death IIRC. Polyester cotton is a big no no.He has a daughter, the charmingly named Venezuela; is he happy to hand her over for the sexual gratification of strangers who knock on his door seeking shelter, as instructed in the bible?
V6Pushfit said:
DocJock said:
Y'know what mph1977? I find your obsession with applying labels to people and pigeonholing them offensive but I wouldn't dream of demanding you cease that behaviour because I believe in freedom of speech.
I think the anti-offending brigade are driven by their own craving for respect as they usually lack the self respect that normal private lives give.or do you mean the repressed and uncommunicative boring 'nilla existence that so many people have and leaves them unfulfilled ...
_dobbo_ said:
V6Pushfit said:
.....I'm with eatcustard.
Stop acting like a 10 yo and being offended all the time.
It's not about being offended, it's about ecucustard claiming that "most blokes" talk this way when the wife can't hear. As well as being laughably pathetic (scared the wife would hear eh?) it's also plainly blinkered.Stop acting like a 10 yo and being offended all the time.
_dobbo_ said:
Pannywagon said:
What's even better is when the liberals can't even see that they're liberal.
What's better is when you use liberal as an insult, and assume someone on the receiving end would think this was a bad thing.mph1977 said:
_dobbo_ said:
Pannywagon said:
What's even better is when the liberals can't even see that they're liberal.
What's better is when you use liberal as an insult, and assume someone on the receiving end would think this was a bad thing.mph1977 said:
V6Pushfit said:
DocJock said:
Y'know what mph1977? I find your obsession with applying labels to people and pigeonholing them offensive but I wouldn't dream of demanding you cease that behaviour because I believe in freedom of speech.
I think the anti-offending brigade are driven by their own craving for respect as they usually lack the self respect that normal private lives give.or do you mean the repressed and uncommunicative boring 'nilla existence that so many people have and leaves them unfulfilled ...
Who are these unfulfilled, repressed and uncommunicative boring 'nilla existence people that there are so many of them? You see boring - I see normal happy people enjoying their lives and having a laugh, they just aren't the fragile emotional cripples that do drugs with a dildo stuck up their jacksies thinking they're living the dream
Edited by V6Pushfit on Thursday 10th December 17:10
V6Pushfit said:
No, don't mean that at all. If you crave self respect, and go on anti-offending crusades on behalf of people who aren't offended then you call that a happy, normal life?
Who are these unfulfilled, repressed and uncommunicative boring 'nilla existence people that there are so many of them? You see boring - I see normal happy people enjoying their lives and having a laugh, they just aren't the fragile emotional cripples that do drugs with a dildo stuck up their jacksies thinking they're living the dream
you do read some crap on PH ... Who are these unfulfilled, repressed and uncommunicative boring 'nilla existence people that there are so many of them? You see boring - I see normal happy people enjoying their lives and having a laugh, they just aren't the fragile emotional cripples that do drugs with a dildo stuck up their jacksies thinking they're living the dream
Edited by V6Pushfit on Thursday 10th December 17:10
but then again all the closeted , cheating 'straights' on grindr and CD sites looking for fulfillment are just a figment ...
mph1977 said:
you do read some crap on PH ...
but then again all the closeted , cheating 'straights' on grindr and CD sites looking for fulfillment are just a figment ...
So Grinder et al is life as we know it then, the barometer of the UK and the indication of success that we should all aspire to?but then again all the closeted , cheating 'straights' on grindr and CD sites looking for fulfillment are just a figment ...
FFS you really need to get out more
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