Opposite Sex Civil Partnership Question

[Mario149]

My gf and I are British and live in the UK. If we went to the Netherlands and registered a civil partnership (you can only have same sex ones here in the UK)....

1) would it be recognized back here in the UK?
and
2) could it be converted to a marriage at a later date as a CP can in the UK?

I know that same sex CPs from Netherlands are recognized here, but can't find anything on opposite sex ones.

Technically I know that we could get married straight off, but for the purposes of this discussion let's assume we don't want to right now and would rather keep it for later.

[PurpleMoonlight]

You want the benefits and risks of marriage without being married?

[Mario149]

PurpleMoonlight said:

You want the benefits and risks of marriage without being married?

For the sake of argument yes

[paintman]

The Dutch appear to have several different recognised unions although the term 'civil partnership' doesn't appear:

"There are three recognised unions in the Netherlands, all available to both same-sex and heterosexual people:
Civil marriage
Registered partnership
Cohabitation agreement"
http://southholland.angloinfo.com/information/fami...
Registered partnership sounds like their version of a CP.

BUT from the same link it appears that you won't be able to do it as you say you are both British.
"In order to enter into civil marriage or a registered partnership the following criteria must be met:
Only two people are allowed in the union and both must be single when entering it
Both must be 18 years or older or have the permission of a guardian
At least one partner must be Dutch, or foreign with Dutch residency status."

And a cohabitation agreement sounds like something you could have drawn up here.
So you might as well either get married or just carry on living together.

Edited by paintman on Friday 8th January 16:57

[Jasandjules]

I am not sure what you mean OP (perhaps I am too tired) but you can simply have a registry office marriage?

[paintman]

But that would be a marriage which the OP doesn't want to do 'for the sake of argument'.

[Jasandjules]

I may be showing rather too much ignorance here but I was of the view that a "civil partnership" was in effect a marriage for same sex couples..... Which then means a registry office.................

[Mario149]

paintman said:

But that would be a marriage which the OP doesn't want to do 'for the sake of argument'.

There's always one isn't there? Maybe we would like to enjoy the legal benefits of being partners officially as it appears you can in some countries, but would rather save a wedding ceremony etc for when we have more time and are in a better position to do it how we want to make it a special day? We've just had a baby daughter and truth be told it just dawned on me that if I get knocked over by a bus tomorrow my partner and child would lose out on a big chunk of money due to inheritance tax purely because even though we live as a married couple (indeed technically she is my common law wife, apparently that happens after you've lived with someone for 6 months or more), we haven't signed a bit of marriage paper saying as much.

[Mario149]

Jasandjules said:

I am not sure what you mean OP (perhaps I am too tired) but you can simply have a registry office marriage?

As per my other reply, essentially I'm trying to see if there is a way to get the legal and tax benefits of being in an "official union" (for want of a better way of putting it) while leaving the marriage bit for a time in the future when we can do it and really enjoy it.

[eatcustard]

Mario149 said:

There's always one isn't there? Maybe we would like to enjoy the legal benefits of being partners officially as it appears you can in some countries, but would rather save a wedding ceremony etc for when we have more time and are in a better position to do it how we want to make it a special day? We've just had a baby daughter and truth be told it just dawned on me that if I get knocked over by a bus tomorrow my partner and child would lose out on a big chunk of money due to inheritance tax purely because even though we live as a married couple (indeed technically she is my common law wife, apparently that happens after you've lived with someone for 6 months or more), we haven't signed a bit of marriage paper saying as much.

Its about £100 to get married

[Tom_C76]

There's no such thing as common law wife in uk law AIUI, and civil partnerships don't offer as much protection as marriage on the death of one partner, hence the desire of the gay community for the right to marry. Pensions in particular treat them very differently.

[Johnnytheboy]

Slight off topic, but can I still get a civil partnership with another man, should I wish, or has gay marriage rendered these obsolete?

[Evanivitch]

eatcustard said:

Its about £100 to get married

This.

The alternative is pay a solicitor a lot of money.

[paintman]

Yes. But in the UK a heterosexual couple can't have a 'civil partnership' & the OP wants a 'civil partnership' not a marriage.

Mario149 said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

You want the benefits and risks of marriage without being married?

For the sake of argument yes

Think PM has it. Perhaps the OP should just be honest & tell their partner that that they don't want to commit to them in any way that could have legal implications.

ETA. Just read your post about baby daughter, knocked down by a bus etc etc.
Get married. End of problem. If you want to do the big ceremony etc you can do a renewal of vows at a date in the future that suits you but at the moment you need to do the best option for your child.

Edited by paintman on Saturday 9th January 20:03

[Jasandjules]

Mario149 said:

As per my other reply, essentially I'm trying to see if there is a way to get the legal and tax benefits of being in an "official union" (for want of a better way of putting it) while leaving the marriage bit for a time in the future when we can do it and really enjoy it.

Well, with a child you also need to be married to have rights as a father I think.

Just pop to the registry office, £100 or so to get it done. Then you are married and have the legal rights you desire.

Later on when you can afford to have the "proper" marriage, then crack on and just have the ceremony etc and party and whatnot.. The full works for the day.

[Vaud]

Jasandjules said:

Just pop to the registry office, £100 or so to get it done. Then you are married and have the legal rights you desire.

Later on when you can afford to have the "proper" marriage, then crack on and just have the ceremony etc and party and whatnot.. The full works for the day.

This. When you have the big marriage, just have someone help you "renew your vows" and make a personal marriage statement to your family and friends. It's your day, your life, do what you want with it and everyone will understand your practical life planning / commitments to wife/child AND appreciate the wedding.

Edit: you can't just pop to the registry office; it needs 28 days notice from point of giving notice, though this can be reduced to 15 days.

£120 total I think.

Edited by Vaud on Saturday 9th January 20:49

[ModernAndy]

I can totally see the OP's point and really don't see how it's anybody else's business how they want to express or formalise their relationship. Surely the point is that 2 people have the right to choose what they want.

Anyhow, would a will or power of attorney given to your other half be a better way of achieving what you want, OP?

Edited by ModernAndy on Saturday 9th January 21:19

[Vaud]

ModernAndy said:

I can totally see the OP's point and really don't see how it's anybody else's business how they want to express or formalise their relationship. Surely the point is that 2 people have the right to choose what they want.

Anyhow, would a will or power of attorney given to your half be a better way of achieving what you want, OP?

It's more about how others recognise it. The OP mentions IHT. There may be (I can't remember) other work related benefits that only go to a wife, I can't recall policy vs legal entitlement.

Common law doesn't exist.

Bottom line is that if he wants all of the legal protections of marriage that he is seeking, he needs to get married, there isn't a 2nd option in the UK?

[Mario149]

eatcustard said:

Its about £100 to get married

Cost of a ceremony (or reception for that matter) is not the issue

[Mario149]

Tom_C76 said:

There's no such thing as common law wife in uk law AIUI, and civil partnerships don't offer as much protection as marriage on the death of one partner, hence the desire of the gay community for the right to marry. Pensions in particular treat them very differently.

There is (or used to be) it just doesn't really give you anything useful. Although I may well be wrong. Anyway, all I know is that it's a choice on some online form picklists for some reason