Opposite Sex Civil Partnership Question

Opposite Sex Civil Partnership Question

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BlackLabel

13,251 posts

122 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
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Interesting question.

Polygamous marriages which occur overseas (in a country where the law allows it) are still recognised in this country up to a certain extent despite polygamy being illegal here. Therefore why not recognise opposite sex civil unions as well?

Mario149

Original Poster:

7,750 posts

177 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
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Jasandjules said:
Well, with a child you also need to be married to have rights as a father I think.
I'm on our daughter birth certificate as the father, so I think I'm all sorted. Since we're not married though, I had to be there, whereas if we were married, my partner could have gone on her own and put me on. Funnily enough, they just ask you if you're married, you don't have to produce evidence (or even proof of who you are), so apart from breaking a law or 2 wink , there was nothing to stop her doing it own her own and me not taking some unpaid time off work wobble


Jasandjules said:
Just pop to the registry office, £100 or so to get it done. Then you are married and have the legal rights you desire.

Later on when you can afford to have the "proper" marriage, then crack on and just have the ceremony etc and party and whatnot.. The full works for the day.
Suspect this is probably the way we'll end up going

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
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Vaud said:
ModernAndy said:
I can totally see the OP's point and really don't see how it's anybody else's business how they want to express or formalise their relationship. Surely the point is that 2 people have the right to choose what they want.

Anyhow, would a will or power of attorney given to your half be a better way of achieving what you want, OP?
It's more about how others recognise it. The OP mentions IHT. There may be (I can't remember) other work related benefits that only go to a wife, I can't recall policy vs legal entitlement.

Common law doesn't exist.

Bottom line is that if he wants all of the legal protections of marriage that he is seeking, he needs to get married, there isn't a 2nd option in the UK?
I understand that, my comments were directed at a few previous comments. I do think both civil partnerships and marriages shouldn't be in any way determined by gender but that's not how it is just now. Hopefully that will change.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
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BlackLabel said:
Therefore why not recognise opposite sex civil unions as well?
What would be the legal and entitlement differences between an opposite sex civil union and a marriage?

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
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Vaud said:
BlackLabel said:
Therefore why not recognise opposite sex civil unions as well?
What would be the legal and entitlement differences between an opposite sex civil union and a marriage?
I know this isn't answering the question but I can think of a few other valid reasons; people don't want to be considered a husband or wife for whatever reason, complete lack of religiosity and perhaps it would be easier to go their own separate ways if it didn't work out.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
ModernAndy said:
I know this isn't answering the question but I can think of a few other valid reasons; people don't want to be considered a husband or wife for whatever reason, complete lack of religiosity and perhaps it would be easier to go their own separate ways if it didn't work out.
Where is religion mentioned in a registry ceremony?

You can marry, keep your own names, stay as "miss xxxxxx", etc.

ModernAndy

2,094 posts

134 months

Saturday 9th January 2016
quotequote all
Vaud said:
ModernAndy said:
I know this isn't answering the question but I can think of a few other valid reasons; people don't want to be considered a husband or wife for whatever reason, complete lack of religiosity and perhaps it would be easier to go their own separate ways if it didn't work out.
Where is religion mentioned in a registry ceremony?

You can marry, keep your own names, stay as "miss xxxxxx", etc.
Some people may consider the whole idea of marriage to be too closely associated with religion and if that's their opinion then I think that's a valid reason.

They might also feel that marriage in some way implies the woman is the property (or chattel if you will) of the man. Not a big deal in this country perhaps but very much valid in some places I've been.

Tom_C76

1,923 posts

187 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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ModernAndy said:
Some people may consider the whole idea of marriage to be too closely associated with religion and if that's their opinion then I think that's a valid reason.

They might also feel that marriage in some way implies the woman is the property (or chattel if you will) of the man. Not a big deal in this country perhaps but very much valid in some places I've been.
That's a load of bull in this country though. Even the selection of music in a registry office wedding must avoid religious tunes. Hence my wife walked in th GnR and we left to The Housemartins, having signed the register to the gentle choirboy tones of Kid Rock.

A registry office wedding can be 5 people in an office if all you want is a piece of paper to formalise stuff.

MC Bodge

21,551 posts

174 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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"Civil partnerships" were only introduced in the UK as a step towards same-sex marriage, which has now been fully introduced, can't everybody see that? They weren't an end in itself.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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Mario149 said:
eatcustard said:
Its about £100 to get married
Cost of a ceremony (or reception for that matter) is not the issue
Then what is?

Mario149

Original Poster:

7,750 posts

177 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
PurpleMoonlight said:
Mario149 said:
eatcustard said:
Its about £100 to get married
Cost of a ceremony (or reception for that matter) is not the issue
Then what is?
I just typed out a full reply to this but realised it was a bit too personal for the interweb so have deleted it and written this. Look, I know it seems strange, but can you just take my word for it that there are several reasons for her and me as to why we might want a legal union now with its benefits without it officially being a marriage. The reasons are personal, non-nefarious and dare I say it possibly quite romantic.

It seems that this may not be possible and I'll have to run the risk of London bus drivers or just do the civil ceremony on the down low and a vow renewal thing at a later date

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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But a legal union with the benefits IS a marriage.

It's a non religious, short process where you both make legal commitments and set out responsibilities that will change you status in the eyes of the law to give you both certain protections (e.g. Pensions)

I don't understand the variant to this that you seek?

Mario149

Original Poster:

7,750 posts

177 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
I appreciate that it may be co fusing, but with respect, you don't have to understand it and I'm not going to post our life details that might enable you to. That was not the point of starting this thread. We've gone way off topic. I started this thread to essentially find out whether there was a legal Union we could enter into (either British or that would be recognised in the UK) that would allow my partner to not be subject to IHT without us having to get married.

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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Fair enough. I'm not interested in the personal details to be honest - but clarity in the exact protections that you seek help people advise you.

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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Mario149 said:
I just typed out a full reply to this but realised it was a bit too personal for the interweb so have deleted it and written this. Look, I know it seems strange, but can you just take my word for it that there are several reasons for her and me as to why we might want a legal union now with its benefits without it officially being a marriage. The reasons are personal, non-nefarious and dare I say it possibly quite romantic.

It seems that this may not be possible and I'll have to run the risk of London bus drivers or just do the civil ceremony on the down low and a vow renewal thing at a later date
I've often thought it would be nice to just have some sort of legal contract that just recognises two people as partners for legal purposes.

These days loads of people are just co habiting, but when things go wrong, the one left can be really left in the lurch, and are often not entitled to the same benefits as a married couple, despite having lived as such in every respect apart from the bit of paper.
The term marriage still has a bit of religion about it that many don't want.

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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If same sex couples can have a marriage or a civil partnership, aren't opposite sex couples being discriminated against because they can't have a civil partnership?

Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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PurpleMoonlight said:
If same sex couples can have a marriage or a civil partnership, aren't opposite sex couples being discriminated against because they can't have a civil partnership?
Sort of. But the civil partnership provides less protection than the OP is probably seeking, so a bit of a moot point? (esp pensions, and probably death in service, depends on employer? etc)

Drawweight

2,863 posts

115 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
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eccles said:
I've often thought it would be nice to just have some sort of legal contract that just recognises two people as partners for legal purposes..
There is.,.it's called marriage.
eccles said:
These days loads of people are just co habiting, but when things go wrong, the one left can be really left in the lurch, and are often not entitled to the same benefits as a married couple, despite having lived as such in every respect apart from the bit of paper.
The term marriage still has a bit of religion about it that many don't want.
Then how come people of the same sex (careful to be PC here) are stampeding to get married when a civil ceremony is just as legal? Do they just like wedding cake?

PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

156 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
Then how come people of the same sex (careful to be PC here) are stampeding to get married when a civil ceremony is just as legal? Do they just like wedding cake?
I guess they want to be considered the same and opposite sex couples, until they parade annually thought the streets proclaiming how different they are that is .....

eccles

13,720 posts

221 months

Sunday 10th January 2016
quotequote all
Drawweight said:
eccles said:
I've often thought it would be nice to just have some sort of legal contract that just recognises two people as partners for legal purposes..
There is.,.it's called marriage.
eccles said:
These days loads of people are just co habiting, but when things go wrong, the one left can be really left in the lurch, and are often not entitled to the same benefits as a married couple, despite having lived as such in every respect apart from the bit of paper.
The term marriage still has a bit of religion about it that many don't want.
Then how come people of the same sex (careful to be PC here) are stampeding to get married when a civil ceremony is just as legal? Do they just like wedding cake?
confused A civil ceremony is the same as a wedding, just not in church. What's your point?

Why can't there be some sort of simple legal contract that recognises a legal partnership between two people? One that is simple to enter into,and simple to come out of.