PCN Ticket issues - evidence is lame

[herewego]

Ask him if 5 mins is a legal requirement and if all councils apply it.

[Hackney]

highway code said:

Rule 238

You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates (or zone entry signs if in a Controlled Parking Zone) – see ‘Traffic signs’ and ‘Road markings’. Double yellow lines indicate a prohibition of waiting at any time even if there are no upright signs. You MUST NOT wait or park, or stop to set down and pick up passengers, on school entrance markings (see ‘Road markings’) when upright signs indicate a prohibition of stopping.

My bold. You admit doing this.

Rule 239

highway code said:

Use off-street parking areas, or bays marked out with white lines on the road as parking places, wherever possible. If you have to stop on the roadside:

do not park facing against the traffic flow
stop as close as you can to the side
do not stop too close to a vehicle displaying a Blue Badge: remember, the occupant may need more room to get in or out
you MUST switch off the engine, headlights and fog lights
you MUST apply the handbrake before leaving the vehicle
you MUST ensure you do not hit anyone when you open your door. Check for cyclists or other traffic
it is safer for your passengers (especially children) to get out of the vehicle on the side next to the kerb
put all valuables out of sight and make sure your vehicle is secure
lock your vehicle.

It appears you also did this

highway code said:

Rule 240

You MUST NOT stop or park on:

the carriageway or the hard shoulder of a motorway except in an emergency (see Rule 270)
a pedestrian crossing, including the area marked by the zig-zag lines (see Rule 191)
a clearway (see ‘Traffic signs’)
taxi bays as indicated by upright signs and markings
an Urban Clearway within its hours of operation, except to pick up or set down passengers (see ‘Traffic signs’)
[b/]a road marked with double white lines, even when a broken white line is on your side of the road, except to pick up or set down passengers, or to load or unload goods[/b]
a tram or cycle lane during its period of operation
a cycle track
red lines, in the case of specially designated ‘red routes’, unless otherwise indicated by signs. Any vehicle may enter a bus lane to stop, load or unload where this is not prohibited (see Rule 141).

You possibly also did this.

None of the above say 5 minutes.

[speedchick]

DarylB90 said:

My Dad works for the local council and his sole job is dealing with PCN disputes.
I sent him the picture and he said:

If that is the only picture they have (and I doubt it) the driver could say that is not my car and the council would have to cancel it on lack of or insufficient photos.
'parking on restricted street during prescribed hours needs 5 minutes obs so if only 1 minute obs was given it would have to be cancelled.

Is it a contravention 01 though? even so that depends on the local authority and what their obs times are, if it's a 02, then it will be an instant, and as I said earlier some authorities deem the ticket as issued once the VRM and contravention code is entered.

[speedking31]

Hackney said:

highway code said:

Rule 238

You MUST NOT wait or park on yellow lines during the times of operation shown on nearby time plates

How do you achieve that without stopping to read the sign?

[Red Devil]

speedchick said:

DarylB90 said:

My Dad works for the local council and his sole job is dealing with PCN disputes.
I sent him the picture and he said:

If that is the only picture they have (and I doubt it) the driver could say that is not my car and the council would have to cancel it on lack of or insufficient photos.
'parking on restricted street during prescribed hours needs 5 minutes obs so if only 1 minute obs was given it would have to be cancelled.

Is it a contravention 01 though? even so that depends on the local authority and what their obs times are, if it's a 02, then it will be an instant, and as I said earlier some authorities deem the ticket as issued once the VRM and contravention code is entered.

That's why I asked the question about exactly what the PCN says. The OP stated there was no code but it ought to be there on a valid Notice. The wording as posted corresponds to an 01 contravention. It is incorrect for a 02. The Regulations are silent about observation times. They have no statutory footing and are purely at the discretion of each individual LA. They should be detailed in its Policy and Procedures document. Hence my repeated requests for the OP to tell us which one issued the PCN.

Many people make the mistake of assuming an obs period is required for all contraventions. This is a dangerous misconception. Some contraventions are 'instant', others are not (and are subject to an obs period). The LA's P&P document should state which ones fall into the latter category.

[speedchick]

Red Devil said:

speedchick said:

DarylB90 said:

My Dad works for the local council and his sole job is dealing with PCN disputes.
I sent him the picture and he said:

If that is the only picture they have (and I doubt it) the driver could say that is not my car and the council would have to cancel it on lack of or insufficient photos.
'parking on restricted street during prescribed hours needs 5 minutes obs so if only 1 minute obs was given it would have to be cancelled.

Is it a contravention 01 though? even so that depends on the local authority and what their obs times are, if it's a 02, then it will be an instant, and as I said earlier some authorities deem the ticket as issued once the VRM and contravention code is entered.

That's why I asked the question about exactly what the PCN says. The OP stated there was no code but it ought to be there on a valid Notice. The wording as posted corresponds to an 01 contravention. It is incorrect for a 02. The Regulations are silent about observation times. They have no statutory footing and are purely at the discretion of each individual LA. They should be detailed in its Policy and Procedures document. Hence my repeated requests for the OP to tell us which one issued the PCN.

Many people make the mistake of assuming an obs period is required for all contraventions. This is a dangerous misconception. Some contraventions are 'instant', others are not (and are subject to an obs period). The LA's P&P document should state which ones fall into the latter category.

You don't need to tell me about the misconceptions, I deal with it every day, parking in a disabled bay 'but I have only been gone 2 minutes'. People with some strange idea that single yellow lines mean they get half an hour free parking, or even people that think you only get PCNs for being parked on double yellow lines and nothing else! Also this idea that without the PCN on the window and a photo of it means an invalid ticket. And then of course it's the fault of the enforcement officer when they do get a ticket!

What makes me laugh is when they throw all the above at the officer, and then appeal against the ticket, do they think the officer's body cam evidence and notes added to the PCN are not looked at??

[Red Devil]

That is precisely why I have asked you several times which LA issued the Regulation 10 PCN, yet you remain curiously reluctant to part with this information. What is the reason for this 'secret squirrel' stance? Absent any explanation, I reckon the custard test stage has been reached.

[Lostprophet]

I was away on business and did not have access to the letter.

I also have not received any response yet either from the council.

[Red Devil]

Lostprophet said:

I was away on business and did not have access to the letter.

Talk about a lame excuse!
You must know which town/city you were in when the incident occurred.
You had internet access to post on here so you could quite easily have found the requested information.

Lostprophet said:

I also have not received any response yet either from the council.

To get one you must have been in touch with them. So you know which one it is but you're still not saying.
Final time of asking. My level of sympathy is rapidly diminishing.

[Lostprophet]

Red Devil... I am not after your sympathy!

The letter I received did not give a code for the contravention. I have stated that previously a few times.

[pinchmeimdreamin]

Lostprophet said:

Red Devil... I am not after your sympathy!

The letter I received did not give a code for the contravention. I have stated that previously a few times.

Ok to help Red Devil out a little, was this in England ?

[superlightr]

if the incident was recorded on a body camera - would be good for the OP to ask for a copy of it FOI/data protection etc whatever and post on here please.

[herewego]

I think they'll just drop it because, even if the interchange was somewhat aggressive, wardens are obviously not allowed to punish people with PCNs, although I'm sure they'd like to sometimes.

[PurpleMoonlight]

Lostprophet said:

I will say it was in the UK. I can't get more detailed than that...

Why not?

[Lostprophet]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Lostprophet said:

I will say it was in the UK. I can't get more detailed than that...

Why not?

I was joking!

[PurpleMoonlight]

Lostprophet said:

I was joking!

Don't give up the day job.

[Lostprophet]

It's been over a month now... No response from the council!!!

[Greendubber]

Maybe you should go and tell them how to do their job too then?

[Lostprophet]

It appears councils have 56 days after they receive an appeal to respond. Takes it to the 11th March.

[funkyrobot]

Lostprophet said:

It's been over a month now... No response from the council!!!

Loooooooooool!