Served notice; tenants refusing to move - HELP.
Discussion
PHCorvette said:
its been 10 years of ups and downs, not unrealistic but the sad truth is references are worth s
t and the general attitudes of tenants over time has gone down hill. We never set our rents unreasonably either as we would rather people be able to afford to live than stretch. Its just we've had enough, made quite a bit of profit and had good returns now wanting to do something else (and perhaps cash in on the next bubble burst)
Isn't the issue with the references related to the frequent suggestion when a tenant won't leave of giving them the next deposit and a good reference to make it someone else's problem?t and the general attitudes of tenants over time has gone down hill. We never set our rents unreasonably either as we would rather people be able to afford to live than stretch. Its just we've had enough, made quite a bit of profit and had good returns now wanting to do something else (and perhaps cash in on the next bubble burst)Hol said:
You read so many stories in the Popular Press about bad landlords and model tennants (complete with token shot of children with sad faces).
Its actually quite an eye-opener for the people like me who do not rent and are not landlords to read and see just how bad some tenants can be.
In fairness, it's the (probably less than) 1% of tenants that cause the most problems. Like most things in life really, it's the minority that tarnish the majority.Its actually quite an eye-opener for the people like me who do not rent and are not landlords to read and see just how bad some tenants can be.
I've been a landlord for years & I'd say the vast majority of tenants I've had have been excellent - a couple of absolute horrors, but they are very much the minority.
The troublesome ones do cause an incredible amount of earache though - completely out of proportion. You end up on first name terms with the local Police, the Anti-Social Behaviour team, the neighbours, boarding up companies, the bloke that does internal doors, cleaning firms etc.
One thing remains the same though - nothing is never, ever, ever their fault.
I got a call once because "we've had to kick the back door in" because the tenant & her boyfriend were smoking dope in the back garden & the 3-year old daughter had locked the door. It wasn't their fault though for leaving the daughter unattended, it was the 3-year olds fault for not sitting still & watching CBeebies. When all the windows were smashed (8 windows...) after her drug-dealer boyfriend failed to pay his supplier, it wasn't their fault either. Never quite worked out whose fault that one was but it certainly wasn't theirs. Still, my refusal to replace the windows with glass rather than ply certainly helped them to hurry up and move out
northwest monkey said:
In fairness, it's the (probably less than) 1% of tenants that cause the most problems. Like most things in life really, it's the minority that tarnish the majority.
From a commercial point of view dealing with residential lettings I would put that figure higher but broken down into different subsections.We let each year to about 100 tenants x many years !
I would say the % tenants that we turn down BEFORE taking up full references is about 40%
Once we have asked the right questions and we think they are going to be ok we then take up full references of those I think its about 15% that we then turn down as something in their referencing will give a major concern or they have lied ie CCJ/out of work/housing benefit/cant afford it/false documents/bankruptcys
Once we have a tenant in renting a property of those I would say we then have less then 1% in any form of rent arrears which they clear quickly and only 1 tenant taken to court for rent arrears over the last 3 years so whatever that % is of 300 tenants 0.3%? We work hard to filter out the not so good tenants but then we are an independent family run letting agents.
There will be discussions about deposits but most 85% we return with no deductions the rest are negotiated fairly and very few go to arbitration 0.5% perhaps a year.
There are a lot of tenants you dont want to let to or should not let to.
PHCorvette said:
As with any reference you are legally obliged to be truthful but not prejudicial so your reference will simply state tenant x rented property y between a and b
I don't think that is correct. You can say whatever you like but it must be truthful.perhaps send some photos of what you found. You can say you would not re-let to them. You can say they left owing rent arrears, they damaged the carpet and blinds, they left the house in an untidy condition, they had oil on the drive etc.
Edited by superlightr on Thursday 28th January 21:18
It may not be pc in this ridiculous left wing country of ours, but when I have dealt with 'evictions' for a few people, I have made a point of going to the property with a gentleman I know, and wait for the tenant to return, meanwhile, bagging up all their crap and placing it gently outside. When they return, they are politely asked to sign their leaving letter, and hand over their keys. I haven't had any issues at all. One moron sent the cops around, but upon seeing his signature on his leaving letter, and meeting the new tenant with his new keys etc, nothing that could be done. Voluntary surrender is always the way to go if you have the front to make it happen
And just for clarification, we had over sixty individual properties, and in that time, have only ever had two problem tenants that we had to evict via court, and only one of those needed the bailiff to turn up, as I remember, he was gone within a couple months. Several others were problem tenants, but left without needing any extended issue. You must remember that you can deal at the level of the tenant, they are not all the confident, have a go laymans lawyer you may think. As long as the person signs his receipt when he leaves and it's written properly, it doesn't matter why, you just have to gauge the situation.
Back in the 80's when life was simpler and no one cared, I remember one guy with a house converted to two flats, and the downstairs tenant was a pain, he just paid a group of hells angels to break in and 'take over' the flat for a few days. It cost him a couple weeks rent, but the tenant left immediately, and never came back. It all depends on who you are dealing with, and what their own insecurities are. I don't rent anything anymore, but when I did, If I' was ever in the slightest doubt over someone, they don't get the tenancy, and the minute they upset me, their notice is given at the first opportunity, and they are gone.
Back in the 80's when life was simpler and no one cared, I remember one guy with a house converted to two flats, and the downstairs tenant was a pain, he just paid a group of hells angels to break in and 'take over' the flat for a few days. It cost him a couple weeks rent, but the tenant left immediately, and never came back. It all depends on who you are dealing with, and what their own insecurities are. I don't rent anything anymore, but when I did, If I' was ever in the slightest doubt over someone, they don't get the tenancy, and the minute they upset me, their notice is given at the first opportunity, and they are gone.
PHCorvette said:
oral references of truth > written reference of "fact" 
I had one set of HB tenants go bad - they urinated on the carpets to a degree that needed to fit new floorboards to clear the smell of ammonia.They did adhere to the s21 and unexpectedly (given how they were leaving the place) I had a reference request. I called the agency to give them feedback and they could not have cared less.....he kept saying 'but you got your rent on time right? - that all my LL's are concerned about'
16 months later that flat was by then no doubt in a state such that they wanted a fresh start and they came back to the agency I use - who told them where to go.
superlightr said:
From a commercial point of view dealing with residential lettings I would put that figure higher but broken down into different subsections.
We let each year to about 100 tenants x many years !
I would say the % tenants that we turn down BEFORE taking up full references is about 40%
Once we have asked the right questions and we think they are going to be ok we then take up full references of those I think its about 15% that we then turn down as something in their referencing will give a major concern or they have lied ie CCJ/out of work/housing benefit/cant afford it/false documents/bankruptcys
Once we have a tenant in renting a property of those I would say we then have less then 1% in any form of rent arrears which they clear quickly and only 1 tenant taken to court for rent arrears over the last 3 years so whatever that % is of 300 tenants 0.3%? We work hard to filter out the not so good tenants but then we are an independent family run letting agents.
There will be discussions about deposits but most 85% we return with no deductions the rest are negotiated fairly and very few go to arbitration 0.5% perhaps a year.
There are a lot of tenants you dont want to let to or should not let to.
You sound like a really good one We let each year to about 100 tenants x many years !
I would say the % tenants that we turn down BEFORE taking up full references is about 40%
Once we have asked the right questions and we think they are going to be ok we then take up full references of those I think its about 15% that we then turn down as something in their referencing will give a major concern or they have lied ie CCJ/out of work/housing benefit/cant afford it/false documents/bankruptcys
Once we have a tenant in renting a property of those I would say we then have less then 1% in any form of rent arrears which they clear quickly and only 1 tenant taken to court for rent arrears over the last 3 years so whatever that % is of 300 tenants 0.3%? We work hard to filter out the not so good tenants but then we are an independent family run letting agents.
There will be discussions about deposits but most 85% we return with no deductions the rest are negotiated fairly and very few go to arbitration 0.5% perhaps a year.
There are a lot of tenants you dont want to let to or should not let to.
That stuff is worth its weight in gold as less scrupulous agencies will place anyone who meets the minimum and quickly claim their fee. I have never had any grief, touch wood, but I never go for the first applicant, terrified of any void; I go for the best applicants and allow them to bargain accordingly. Doctors an lawyers get discounts! So far so good (15 yrs)! One thing to also bear in mind is insurance on a rented property. I rented one of mine out in 2011 to a pack of DHSS scummers* , a couple with two or three kids. One of New Labours fantastic ideas (!) was to make housing benefit payable directly to the tenant so they could piss it away on Special Brew and tattoos rather than pay the landlord. No way I was having that, and insisted it was paid directly to the letting agents who were absolutely fking useless.
So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a sthole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.
Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance aholes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then.
My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
king useless.So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a s
thole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance a
holes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then. My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
- No, they're not all bad. So I've been told.
Edited by iSore on Tuesday 2nd February 19:14
iSore said:
One thing to also bear in mind is insurance on a rented property. I rented one of mine out in 2011 to a pack of DHSS scummers* , a couple with two or three kids. One of New Labours fantastic ideas (!) was to make housing benefit payable directly to the tenant so they could piss it away on Special Brew and tattoos rather than pay the landlord. No way I was having that, and insisted it was paid directly to the letting agents who were absolutely fking useless.
So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a sthole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.
Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance aholes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then.
My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
king useless.So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a s
thole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance a
holes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then. My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
- No, they're not all bad. So I've been told.
Edited by iSore on Tuesday 2nd February 19:14
iSore said:
One thing to also bear in mind is insurance on a rented property. I rented one of mine out in 2011 to a pack of DHSS scummers* , a couple with two or three kids. One of New Labours fantastic ideas (!) was to make housing benefit payable directly to the tenant so they could piss it away on Special Brew and tattoos rather than pay the landlord. No way I was having that, and insisted it was paid directly to the letting agents who were absolutely fking useless.
So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a sthole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.
Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance aholes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then.
My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
The key issue is as a social housing/DHSS tenant the deck is stacked in your favor. The local authority are always going to house you so you know you can get away with bad behavior. Worse case scenario they wreck the place get evicted, go into temp accommodation for a bit and then get offered another property. If you get sued for cost you pay it off a £10 a week.king useless.So, they wrecked the place and I had to go to court for an eviction order. They left hours before the bailiff arrived having destroyed the carpets and wallpaper, ripped three doors off their hinges and so on - the sort of behaviour you expect from such vermin. The total cost of putting it right was in the region of £4000 - new doors, total strip and renovation. I was with a company called CX Commercial who, after a lot of aggro eventually paid out £700 because, apparently, destroying carpets and wallpaper is 'a lifestyle choice'. Okay then.
Oh, and having had their kids taken into care and turned my once nice house into a s
thole, the place became a magnet for rats and mice. They then went to the council and complained! As a result, once the vermin were gone (the mice and rats seemed to go with them, but there was mouse st everywhere) I had to jump through fking hoops of fire to meet every new standard.Criminal damage? Don't waste your time with the Police. I called them out - a very good copper took a good look round, agreed it was criminal damage and spent a lot of time liaising with men and the insurance a
holes, only for the his superior to drop it saying the court would never prosecute. Okay then. My little DHSS adventure cost me in the region of £4000 all told. I sacked off the agent, got another one and they got a bunch of Polish lads in who, over the past 3 years, have been as good as gold.
- No, they're not all bad. So I've been told.
Edited by iSore on Tuesday 2nd February 19:14
Also the council wont rehouse them if they leave before bailiffs turn up with court order as anything prior to that is intentionally homeless. So 99% of the ime you will need to evict.
Friend of mine took part DHSS ie half was paid by them, guy was a taxi driver. The didn't wreck the place however the loft was locked with his things in it and the broke in and helped themselves. After 3 months they stopped paying their half of the rent so he only got the council part. They then used a daughter with illness as a never ending excuse for non payment. He had to evict them as council told them to sit tight. He never got their half back and didnt bother suing.
Some of these people are just scum, pay your way, or get out. If he's a taxi driver, best way to make sure, week or so before the eviction, make sure that his taxi receives a little TLC worthy of failure at the next council roadworthyness test, he won't be so smug when he hasn't got a job either. They are pretty strict on taxis, clients of mine have had to fund new cars for relatively small issues with a car, as once the car reaches a certain level of problems, even over time, the seems to be some kind of requirement for it to be taken off the road, right then and there. Always good to end up drawing rather than losing when there's no chance of winning
Eastern Europeans / respectable jobs are my main filters.
Had a used car saleswomen, who unsurprisingly did not pay the first month (!); as I had moved away my father went there the day the money was missed and evicted her (also turned out the agency had missed a CCJ on her credit file ...); simple threat of taking her back into bankruptcy as she held a directorship at some car firm or another ( something to that effect anyway).
Had a group of Hungarians in for 3 / 4 years; always pay on time, renovate the house for money off the rent, keep everything tidy. *
Had a used car saleswomen, who unsurprisingly did not pay the first month (!); as I had moved away my father went there the day the money was missed and evicted her (also turned out the agency had missed a CCJ on her credit file ...); simple threat of taking her back into bankruptcy as she held a directorship at some car firm or another ( something to that effect anyway).
Had a group of Hungarians in for 3 / 4 years; always pay on time, renovate the house for money off the rent, keep everything tidy. *
- Although I do believe the chap who is the TA holder sub lets the property as the bailiffs turned up one day about a certain individual who had fled the country ( but gave that address) back to Hungry, but he pays every month and is an easy guy to deal with so ...
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