The classic... 70 in a 50, A90 Aberdeenshire

[simoid]

Posting on behalf of a good friend.

Story: driving South from Aberdeen on A90 at Laurencekirk, as part of a long journey, didn't slow down from the 70 limit to the 50, and was therefore clocked by a GATSO at 70mph. Dry day, excellent visibility, very light traffic, dual carriageway. Friend suggests they were perhaps concentrating on said light traffic and missed the speed limit countdown (50 in III, II, I) and start signs.

Caught in October, received a letter asking to identify driver a few days later, and now received notification of the court date this week. No FPN was offered, despite being within the "guidance limits" apparently because this is a notoriously dangerous stretch of road.

The court date is in February on a day that my friend normally works.

Question: What's the general concensus on pleading guilty by post/attending? I've had a read about, and am leaning towards advising my friend to take the day off work to travel >100 miles and show up in court. She's a young professional, and when the letter came was utterly utterly distraught (tears, etc) so I think she might be better treated in person as the decision maker will see she is not "a wrong 'un", just made a mistake and got caught. She's also worried about a ban, etc, but I think this is totally unlikely.

I reckon (totally unscientifically):
Turn up, guilty, really sorry, I know how bad the road is, I just missed the change of speed limit, really sorry, clean licence, family members injured by road accidents, takes safety with utmost (+mitigation - quiet day, low traffic etc), probably will end up crying = maybe 3 points and a day's wages? (I assume this can't be shifted to local court).

Write letter (which they read all the time) send back 6 points and a few days wages?

TL;DRCaught speeding @ 70 in a 50. Better going to court or writing letter to plead?

[matchmaker]

If she appears in court personally it will look as if she is taking the matter seriously. Suited & booted, apologies, etc.

It is an accident blackspot though - that's the reason for the 50mph limit!

[simoid]

matchmaker said:

If she appears in court personally it will look as if she is taking the matter seriously. Suited & booted, apologies, etc.

It is an accident blackspot though - that's the reason for the 50mph limit!

Thanks MM, that's what I was thinking. Oh she's definitely taking it seriously - is petrified at the possibility of a ban (of which I'm expecting the chances are vanishingly small). I expect the apologies/plea would be made through a stream/flood of tears.

Costs of attendance: a day at work/holiday is probably worth a hundred odd quid or so, best part of 300 mile round trip probably £40 of petrol, also feeling like a criminal.

Benefits of attendance: that's what I wasn't sure about really. I was reading there's hundreds and hundreds of speeding offences every month on the A90 so they've maybe "seen it all before."

[SLCZ3]

Ah, I know the road well, from 35 years ago, use to do Nigg Bay to Barnsley in good time overnight, 500 miles and get home 7-30 in the am, never saw any cops or speed traps in the good old days.

[AGK]

Try a plead guilty by post and see what comes of it but I wouldn't be surprised if they knock it back and still proceed to trial.

A colleague was caught at 70 in a 40 and his guilty plea by post was refused so he turned up and left with 3 points and £100.

(Scotland btw)

[matchmaker]

AGK said:

Try a plead guilty by post and see what comes of it but I wouldn't be surprised if they knock it back and still proceed to trial.

A colleague was caught at 70 in a 40 and his guilty plea by post was refused so he turned up and left with 3 points and £100.

(Scotland btw)

If the only charge is 70 in a 50 and she pleads guilty, why on earth would they go to trial? If she pleads guilty by letter the court *might* want her to appear personally, although that is most likely to happen only if disqualification is considered. Disqualifying someone in their absence is not a good idea!

[TartanPaint]

There's a 50 sign with 300 yard countdown, a brightly painted gatso, a big signposted staggered crossing, and A BIG FLASHING 50 sign which shouts at you if you're doing more than 50.

I'm at a total loss to understand how you could claim lapse of concentration without ending up with a Driving without due care and attention, which is probably more points than the speeding. Or worse, end up with both.

I'd go with "sorry" but skip the excuses, as they sound completely implausible to me.

[agtlaw]

matchmaker said:

If the only charge is 70 in a 50 and she pleads guilty, why on earth would they go to trial? If she pleads guilty by letter the court *might* want her to appear personally, although that is most likely to happen only if disqualification is considered. Disqualifying someone in their absence is not a good idea!

The example mentioned was very likely an equivocal plea. Hence, the adjournment to trial.

[simoid]

TartanPaint said:

There's a 50 sign with 300 yard countdown, a brightly painted gatso, a big signposted staggered crossing, and A BIG FLASHING 50 sign which shouts at you if you're doing more than 50.

I'm at a total loss to understand how you could claim lapse of concentration without ending up with a Driving without due care and attention, which is probably more points than the speeding. Or worse, end up with both.

I'd go with "sorry" but skip the excuses, as they sound completely implausible to me.

Aye I know what you mean. I was in the passenger seat. We actually had a discussion in Dundee about the fact neither of us could remember slowing down for the 50 limit a Laurencekirk...! I'll get a look at the photos to see if there's any reason for missing the signs. I have w feeling I recall passing a city link bus (one of the massive ones) somewhere down the road so perhaps that hid the near side signs and grabbed attention. Who knows.

So "sorry, this isn't like me, I normally take so much care (as you can see I wasn't exceeding the limit in my head (lol))" and she takes her punishment. Thing is, if she takes a day off work to go all the way up there and ends up with loads of points and a massive fine I'll be sent to Coventry

[LovelyTia]

I'm for attending.
I believed it helped me when I was in court for speeding last year.

Something to also keep in mind she needs to have someone take her if she does attend. Don't let her drive herself there on the outside chance she does lose her licence.
They should actually offer that advice in the paperwork.

Edited by LovelyTia on Tuesday 19th January 20:33

[ModernAndy]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure there's signs at both sides of each carriageway at the start of that bit and repeaters at both sides plus the flashing boards that are triggered by vehicles going over 50mph. There's no excuse for making it more difficult for traffic to cross that particularly stty junction by speeding and I can't see a scenario where the speed limit isn't apparent but I hope they don't get their wrist slapped too hard. The weather, etc. really has nothing to do with it and I would suggest they don't bring it up for fear of invoking the wrath of the court but of course IANAL.

[AndyAudi]

simoid said:

neither of us could remember slowing down for the 50 limit

I've done the same North bound - realised I was through the 50 with no recollection of slowing, I was using the cruise control set about 70 (as I had all through the average cameras on the A9 earlier so was expecting a letter but nothing came of it thankfully.

Colleague who travels the road regulary is still waiting to see if he's getting a letter after getting flashed through it the other week after failing to slow also, so will watch this thread.

Not sure if similar, but my last brush with the law in Aberdeenshire was also 40% above the limit 97/70, it was procurator fiscal & I wrote letter rather than attend - outcome was 5pts & £300 fine.

[simoid]

Thanks Andies - duly noted. Kind of worrying, I'm sure we all do it on a longer drive where you can't recall the last however many minutes/miles.

I suppose there could have been other traffic at the time as it has been known for some people to (I hear) set cruise control to c. 80mph for the NSL speed limits. This traffic may have saved more points or even a short ban for 76/77 instead of "just" the 70 in a 50!

[WD39]

simoid said:

Posting on behalf of a good friend.

Dry day, excellent visibility, very light traffic, dual carriageway.

This is a common excuse on PH for those who are caught speeding.

As if these make a difference.

Speed limits are in force 24/7, regardless of the weather conditions, environment or topographical variations.

[Pete317]

WD39 said:

simoid said:

Posting on behalf of a good friend.

Dry day, excellent visibility, very light traffic, dual carriageway.

This is a common excuse on PH for those who are caught speeding.

As if these make a difference.

Speed limits are in force 24/7, regardless of the weather conditions, environment or topographical variations.

You don't say

[WD39]

Pete317 said:

WD39 said:

simoid said:

Posting on behalf of a good friend.

Dry day, excellent visibility, very light traffic, dual carriageway.

This is a common excuse on PH for those who are caught speeding.

As if these make a difference.

Speed limits are in force 24/7, regardless of the weather conditions, environment or topographical variations.

You don't say

Yes, I do say. In my local paper this week, up before the beak for speeding. The excuse? 'But there was no other traffic around.'

Guilty!

It is no bad thing to be reminded occasionally. (I'll now cross you off the list.)

[skodaphile]

WD39 said:

Yes, I do say. In my local paper this week, up before the beak for speeding. The excuse? 'But there was no other traffic around.'

Guilty!

It is no bad thing to be reminded occasionally. (I'll now cross you off the list.)

[johnwilliams77]

You're lucky this wasn't at the same time as I passed this area a few weeks back....the police were sitting in the van with the speed gun behind the speed camera, so you could get 6 points in one go presumably. I was also slightly worried as sometimes I just slow to 55/56 until the camera then drop a few mph for the camera.

I had a court appearance also a few years back. It was a 6hr drive away so I sent a solicitor. Got a reasonable result too.

[QuickQuack]

WD39 said:

Pete317 said:

WD39 said:

simoid said:

Posting on behalf of a good friend.

Dry day, excellent visibility, very light traffic, dual carriageway.

This is a common excuse on PH for those who are caught speeding.

As if these make a difference.

Speed limits are in force 24/7, regardless of the weather conditions, environment or topographical variations.

You don't say

Yes, I do say. In my local paper this week, up before the beak for speeding. The excuse? 'But there was no other traffic around.'

Guilty!

It is no bad thing to be reminded occasionally. (I'll now cross you off the list.)

Whether it's the OP or not is immaterial but what is clear is that s/he's not trying to get out of the punishment for the crime, only trying to minimise the punishment which is a totally different attitude. They obviously don't need your reminder, the police have already done that and it seems to have worked.

A holier than thou/my st doesn't stink approach is rarely productive.

[SS2.]

johnwilliams77 said:

.the police were sitting in the van with the speed gun behind the speed camera, so you could get 6 points in one go presumably.

Offences committed on the same occasion would likely see one set of points imposed, that being the number of points which would have been attributed to the 'worst' of the offences.

Of course, if the margin was high enough, then that could well be 6 points.