NIP - Single witness, no measuring device (Excess of 50MPH)

[SiH]

This has to be a first on PH; for once someone has actually posted a picture of a ridiculous ticket rather than dragging out a story for 15 pages and then quietly disappearing! Well done for posting this OP and if I were you I'd enjoy my day in court (should it come to that!).

[SS2.]

Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 said:

89. Speeding offences generally

(1) A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person prosecuted for such an offence shall not be liable to be convicted solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that, in the opinion of the witness, the person prosecuted was driving the vehicle at a speed exceeding a specified limit.

Says it all, really.

[ModernAndy]

SS2. said:

Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 said:

89. Speeding offences generally

(1) A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person prosecuted for such an offence shall not be liable to be convicted solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that, in the opinion of the witness, the person prosecuted was driving the vehicle at a speed exceeding a specified limit.

Says it all, really.

Case closed!!!

Is there a similar regulation for more subjective offences such as dangerous or careless driving?

[V8LM]

Must be done to scare. I see the location is written as B4461 Aust Road (?) - according to Google the B4461 is Redhill Lane, not Aust Road.

Aust Road is also NSL.

[Red Devil]

Indeed. It gets even more interesting.

Before you reach the junction with Aust Road - https://goo.gl/maps/oKRQGNDkc6B2
Aust road is the 'straight on' one on the road sign - https://goo.gl/maps/Bu4ixPfhG962
That report form seems to have more holes than a Swiss cheese.

[V8LM]

What if Officer Smith was recording the chase after the U turn?

[Previous]

There was no chase after u turn, I'd seen him turn with blues, and after being flashed assumed it May be for me so I practically stopped and waited the inevitable.

If I was traveling really fast I'd have been out of view before I saw him turn.

I guess nothing for it now but to wait and see. I don't think I was over but If there's proof I was then I'll take my medicine, but if it relies on that slip then I guess I'll challenge it.

Following previous dealings with Avon and Somerset I'm half expecting 3 other coppers to state that they wereconveniently passing at the same time...

[0000]

Was it a marked car?

Are the Police really still using the old government classification scheme on new documents when it was supposed to be retired nearly two years ago?

[tapereel]

SS2. said:

Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 said:

89. Speeding offences generally

(1) A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road at a speed exceeding a limit imposed by or under any enactment to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence.

(2) A person prosecuted for such an offence shall not be liable to be convicted solely on the evidence of one witness to the effect that, in the opinion of the witness, the person prosecuted was driving the vehicle at a speed exceeding a specified limit.

Says it all, really.

It does say it all. The situation the OP describes is specifically barred by the legislation NOT provided by it.

The officer needs words of advice as the police say.

The officer must have been motivated by the OP's driving to do this but I'm afraid the officer has insufficient evidence to press the matter and I would say the police would not issue a summons with this opinion as the only support for the crown case, if they do the CPS will not prosecute it.

[elanfan]

IT seems you may have had an officer keen to get a conviction. As far as I'm aware the Police don't like non traffic officers making reports for speeding (even former officers).

If the car was marked presumably you'd have seen it coming and probably lifted a bit. If you rounded a bend and were confronted by an on coming police car and he only had time to flash you then he cannot of had sufficient time to form an opinion of your speed. He could have been looking in his rear view mirror and looked back at the road and saw you at the last second and this surprised him and gave him an incorrect opinion. He could not have corroborated your speed as you were approaching each other. You had slowed by the time he had turned around and had obviously not followed you at excess speed for 2/10ths of a mile etc.

I'd sit it out and see if anything arrives in the post, if it does I'd write to the senior officer and the copy the CPS pointing out all the aforementioned stuff and suggest they have no possible corroborative evidence.

[Previous]

Just to add, yes was a marked car - mondeo estate.

The police car was about 30-50 yards behind another 'Member of public' car, both were traveling towards me.

[herewego]

I doubt it will be followed up but the problem with waiting to hear is that you could be waiting 6 months. I'd be inclined to go and clarify at the police station.

[herewego]

Previous said:

There was no chase after u turn, I'd seen him turn with blues, and after being flashed assumed it May be for me so I practically stopped and waited the inevitable.

If I was traveling really fast I'd have been out of view before I saw him turn.

I guess nothing for it now but to wait and see. I don't think I was over but If there's proof I was then I'll take my medicine, but if it relies on that slip then I guess I'll challenge it.

Following previous dealings with Avon and Somerset I'm half expecting 3 other coppers to state that they were conveniently passing at the same time...

You're saying you've been in trouble before with this force?

[Previous]

Not exactly. I'll Simply state that my view of A&S Constab is jaded, the reasons for which are not relevant to this topic - my previous comment was largely facetious.

Fundamentally, the topic regards the level of evidence required to prove beyond reasonable doubt, to a magistrate, that an offence was committed; and perhaps to a lesser degree the manner in which such evidence is obtained ("I'm gonna 'ave you Vs objective collation of corroborating facts).

For obvious reason I'm not making any comments about my driving other than my assertion that I believe I was below the limit, (though I'm happy and interested to read the various speculation!!)

[The original Nick the Greek]

The copper had a bad day, we all have them. For some reason he vented his frustration on you. The chances of successful conviction in court are nil.

[ModernAndy]

Not that it's relevant if not enough evidence is provided by the police but is there any possibility that this is a ticket for an excess of 50mph rather than an excess of a 50mph speed limit, e.g. doing 90 in a 40?

I was thinking if that's the case, could it be the officer's intention to have the OP done for dangerous driving rather than speeding (regardless of the wording of the paperwork) and in that case is there the same requirement that one opinion isn't enough?

[anonymous-user]

Previous said:

There was no chase after u turn, I'd seen him turn with blues, and after being flashed assumed it May be for me so I practically stopped and waited the inevitable.

There was a thread a while ago where many people, including myself, admitted gunning it after seeing a police car going in the opposite direction take an interest in them.

I salute your restraint.

[Previous]

NinjaPower said:

There was a thread a while ago where many people, including myself, admitted gunning it after seeing a police car going in the opposite direction take an interest in them.

I salute your restraint.

...This time

[onomatopoeia]

V8LM said:

Must be done to scare. I see the location is written as B4461 Aust Road (?) - according to Google the B4461 is Redhill Lane, not Aust Road.

Aust Road is also NSL.

The section of the B4461 between the motorway roundabout and the junction of Aust road and where the B4461 is definitely Redhill lane doesn't appear to have a name at all, so could be either - I don't have my old printed map here to check. Either way it identifies the location pretty accurately. Said section used to be NSL but got knocked down to 50 a couple of years back, but can be safely traversed at the NSL for a single carriageway road. I always used to do so until the limit was dropped.


To the OP if you come through Alveston late in the evening whilst using that section of road, if you could keep to the 30 limit on the town side of Marlwood school toward the Cross hands pub it would be appreciated, people "making progress" through there (and plenty do despite it being residential) have a tendency to wake me up!

[Vipers]

In his opinion..............

I was once approached by two policemen and accused (wrongly) of driving down a one way street the wrong way, when the other policeman starred to back up his pals "Opinion", I grabbed my note and started taking their numbers.

Told them I was going to report them, strange how they backed off and went on their merry way.

I havnt read all the posts here, so I apologise if I missed something, but if it came to court, I would certainly challenge it, unless you were insanely going fast.