NIP - Single witness, no measuring device (Excess of 50MPH)
Discussion
I have on various occassions had a town police car turn up, and officers attempt to tell me that they intend getting me for speeding becuase someone has rang them and told them I had overtaken them. I have always just laughed, asked where the evidence such as cameras/lasers etc were, pointed out that anyone can ring up and report any registration number they like, particularly if jealous, so to 'get orf my land' whioch never goes down well. Last time the guy told me he would be 'looking out for me so that he could take my licence away', so I wrote his name down and took his photo, and told him Id pass his details onto the CPS for him, so that if I do experience harrassment they have a starter for ten. His mate was giggling under his helmet!
The original Nick the Greek said:
The copper had a bad day, we all have them. For some reason he vented his frustration on you. The chances of successful conviction in court are nil.
Having a vent on a bad day is one thing, but when it could cost money and points on their licence its not acceptable. I had quite an unpleasant encounter with a copper who had decided I was speeding, and then became very angry when i disputed it. Gives good coppers a bad name, and they do exist 'cos I live with one 
daytona355 said:
I wrote his name down and took his photo, and told him Id pass his details onto the CPS for him, so that if I do experience harrassment they have a starter for ten. His mate was giggling under his helmet!
I got stopped towing a trailer just outside Chesterfield a few years back, VOSA van with 2 officers in itThey overtook me and took me to a layby, one was OK, one on a power trip ,he checked the tachograph, all OK then he tells me I'm overloaded , I knew I wasn't as each box had a weight on so he said right I'll check your bump stops , he crawled under the truck and laid down on the floor On his back
While he was under there the other guy whispered in my ear, he likes laying in urine (but beginning with a P)
When he crawled out he was filthy
Hahahaha, nice one. Some of these guys are okay, but some are total fools.
I was out in a C63 a little while ago, it was a week old, and I was cruising back home for the footie on a Sunday after a carluccio brekkie. Massive a road, unmarked car in front, light traffic, and he's doing 17 in a 40, glaring in his rear view. I don't go anywhere slow, so I'm overtaking. I pick my moment, move out and as I do, he accelerates alongside, I look over, mouth something rude at him beginning with w, and floor it, going straight past like he was standing still, then pull immediately to the left side and carry on at 40.
He puts his lights on, and pulls me over, so I pick the worst place to stop, and wait, telling er indoors to keep it shut as she will drop me in it. He storms up, calling me names, and telling me I'm getting stuck on for dangerous driving, and I didn't know it was a traffic car and my overtake was on video
I laughed in his face, and pointed out that we would both be going to court then, as its against the law to accelerate hard alongside an overtaking vehicle trying to cause an accident (he thought I would back down, and I'm in a car with double the bhp of his little diesel banger). He immediately said alright, I'll do you for speeding, 40 in a 30!
What a muppet, it's a forty limit, so we argued over that for a while, and then he tried to see if there was anything wrong with the car (again, one week old!), so I eventually told him I couldn't be bothered to play with him anymore and just drove off, leaving him stood in the road. He never followed, despite my lack of adherence to the speed limit in my exit! Prat
I was out in a C63 a little while ago, it was a week old, and I was cruising back home for the footie on a Sunday after a carluccio brekkie. Massive a road, unmarked car in front, light traffic, and he's doing 17 in a 40, glaring in his rear view. I don't go anywhere slow, so I'm overtaking. I pick my moment, move out and as I do, he accelerates alongside, I look over, mouth something rude at him beginning with w, and floor it, going straight past like he was standing still, then pull immediately to the left side and carry on at 40.
He puts his lights on, and pulls me over, so I pick the worst place to stop, and wait, telling er indoors to keep it shut as she will drop me in it. He storms up, calling me names, and telling me I'm getting stuck on for dangerous driving, and I didn't know it was a traffic car and my overtake was on video
I laughed in his face, and pointed out that we would both be going to court then, as its against the law to accelerate hard alongside an overtaking vehicle trying to cause an accident (he thought I would back down, and I'm in a car with double the bhp of his little diesel banger). He immediately said alright, I'll do you for speeding, 40 in a 30!
What a muppet, it's a forty limit, so we argued over that for a while, and then he tried to see if there was anything wrong with the car (again, one week old!), so I eventually told him I couldn't be bothered to play with him anymore and just drove off, leaving him stood in the road. He never followed, despite my lack of adherence to the speed limit in my exit! Prat
Reminds me of an episode of Police Interceptors I watched the other day. Some young chancer (who was a muppet to be fair) came to be pulled over. The single crewed copper was parked observing a mini roundabout and said he looked like he was speeding, so a short catch up 'chase' ensues and over the young lad goes. The copper says he was going too fast, and invites him into his vehicle to watch the dashcam video showing him cross the roundabout (straight across).
An NIP/ticket for excess speed is given, gleefully explained as being 3 points and a fine for the newly passed driver. The officer explains that he knows the lad was speeding because "I had to do 56mph to catch you, so that means you were definitely doing at least 45mph"... Bear in mind the copper had to drive to the r/a, turn right, then drive down the road to where the lad's car had gotten to.
Did I mention the officer was from the dog section and single crewed in the force dog van, so he's not even traffic? The young lad just rolled over, took his ticket and drove away. I'd have been having a polite conversation about the laws of physics and relative speed (hint: you can't catch up with someone doing 30mph unless you drive faster than that, especially when you weren't even on the same road as them to start with). Doh.
It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the OP if/when he takes up the matter with the duty inspector.
An NIP/ticket for excess speed is given, gleefully explained as being 3 points and a fine for the newly passed driver. The officer explains that he knows the lad was speeding because "I had to do 56mph to catch you, so that means you were definitely doing at least 45mph"... Bear in mind the copper had to drive to the r/a, turn right, then drive down the road to where the lad's car had gotten to.
Did I mention the officer was from the dog section and single crewed in the force dog van, so he's not even traffic? The young lad just rolled over, took his ticket and drove away. I'd have been having a polite conversation about the laws of physics and relative speed (hint: you can't catch up with someone doing 30mph unless you drive faster than that, especially when you weren't even on the same road as them to start with). Doh.
It'll be interesting to see what becomes of the OP if/when he takes up the matter with the duty inspector.
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...Jim1556 said:
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this dhead officers' 'opinion'...
If you see my earlier post, I nearly was by two lying plods, the seconded backed up the other until I started writing their badge numbers down.For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...
I didn't used to believe these stories but I have actually had a patrol car turn around, follow me, then stop me and accuse me of speeding (in a 50) because "we had to do 80 to catch you up"
I said that we could go to court where I would explain the laws of physics as my defence and was then told 'Ok, we'll let you go this time but be more careful next time"
Careful of what? Uneducated patrol car drivers?
Cool Starry Bra etc.
I said that we could go to court where I would explain the laws of physics as my defence and was then told 'Ok, we'll let you go this time but be more careful next time"
Careful of what? Uneducated patrol car drivers?
Cool Starry Bra etc.
ferrariF50lover said:
I have a real photo of a similar thing. One side 40, the other NSL.
On this, I'm guessing it doesn't matter a fig what the sign says, the limit is whatever the paperwork for the road says?
Not really, if the road isn't properly signed, you can't be prosecuted for breaking the limit. I've successfully fought this in the past.On this, I'm guessing it doesn't matter a fig what the sign says, the limit is whatever the paperwork for the road says?
Jim1556 said:
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this dhead officers' 'opinion'...
I got a driver convicted of driving whilst unfit through alcohol, on the basis of mine and another officers opinion that he was drunk. Correctly used there is nothing wrong with opinion evidence. In a speeding case I did not have to prove how fast the car was travelling, just that it was significantly more than the 30 limit as it went past me.For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...It would have to be a very weak solicitor on the defence to allow any conviction without proof. I have avoided tens of tickets on the basis there was no physical evidence of speeding. The CPS would never go to court without calibrated proof UNLESS the speeder admitted his offence and signed to confirm his admission. Otherwise it's all hearsay
daytona355 said:
It would have to be a very weak solicitor on the defence to allow any conviction without proof. I have avoided tens of tickets on the basis there was no physical evidence of speeding. The CPS would never go to court without calibrated proof UNLESS the speeder admitted his offence and signed to confirm his admission. Otherwise it's all hearsay
Witness testimony from a person of what they saw is not hearsay & prosecutions have gone ahead (& been won) without calibrated evidence.XCP said:
Jim1556 said:
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this dhead officers' 'opinion'...
I got a driver convicted of driving whilst unfit through alcohol, on the basis of mine and another officers opinion that he was drunk. Correctly used there is nothing wrong with opinion evidence. In a speeding case I did not have to prove how fast the car was travelling, just that it was significantly more than the 30 limit as it went past me.For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...Drunkenness is AFAIAA the only matter that any police officer can give evidence of opinion & be accepted as an expert by the courts.
Dependent on qualifications and experience a police officer can also be accepted by the court as an expert in other subjects in exactly the same way as any other expert. Don't forget that many of us join the force after years spent doing other things & are likely to have the appropriate pieces of paper as a result.
As I mentioned earlier on the only occasions I reported for excess speed on evidence of opinion there were two of us, both advanced drivers, both trained on muniquip, vascar & pro-laser & experienced in assessing the speed of vehicles. Plus on both occasions it was a 30 limit & we both estimated at least 60.
Dependent on qualifications and experience a police officer can also be accepted by the court as an expert in other subjects in exactly the same way as any other expert. Don't forget that many of us join the force after years spent doing other things & are likely to have the appropriate pieces of paper as a result.
As I mentioned earlier on the only occasions I reported for excess speed on evidence of opinion there were two of us, both advanced drivers, both trained on muniquip, vascar & pro-laser & experienced in assessing the speed of vehicles. Plus on both occasions it was a 30 limit & we both estimated at least 60.
daytona355 said:
Simple to argue though, if you are in a vehicle travelling the other way, you cannot possibly form a correct idea of a speed, it's impossible. You might surmise it's too fast, but without proof, a good brief will destroy it
I was addressing matters you stated in your previous post i.e. what is/isn't hearsay & successful prosecutions (up to appeal) without calibrated evidence.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff