NIP - Single witness, no measuring device (Excess of 50MPH)
Discussion
Bigends said:
XCP said:
Jim1556 said:
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...
I got a driver convicted of driving whilst unfit through alcohol, on the basis of mine and another officers opinion that he was drunk. Correctly used there is nothing wrong with opinion evidence. In a speeding case I did not have to prove how fast the car was travelling, just that it was significantly more than the 30 limit as it went past me.For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...vonhosen said:
Bigends said:
XCP said:
Jim1556 said:
I'm still struggling with the fact that 2 pissed off plod can 'corroborate' each other's 'opinions' and you can get done for it regardless of the facts!!!
For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this dhead officers' 'opinion'...
I got a driver convicted of driving whilst unfit through alcohol, on the basis of mine and another officers opinion that he was drunk. Correctly used there is nothing wrong with opinion evidence. In a speeding case I did not have to prove how fast the car was travelling, just that it was significantly more than the 30 limit as it went past me.For me, proof should equal speed camera (calibrated/appropriate lineage) or chased for some distance/timed between 2 points (on video) - Otherwise, it's just a case of my mate thinks this, I agree with him, you're guilty!
OP, good luck with this, it sounds like an absolute non starter based purely on this d
head officers' 'opinion'...If what you are saying is correct, then why haven't I got 400 points. I have had Feds pull me ov and claim speeding so many times over the years it's laughable, yet NIL points so far. Either every cop I meet is incompetent, or they are not able to rely upon 'opinion'. Of course, I am probably the last person they want getting out the car, firing off their rules and regs to them so many be I just intimidate them?
daytona355 said:
If what you are saying is correct, then why haven't I got 400 points. I have had Feds pull me ov and claim speeding so many times over the years it's laughable, yet NIL points so far. Either every cop I meet is incompetent, or they are not able to rely upon 'opinion'. Of course, I am probably the last person they want getting out the car, firing off their rules and regs to them so many be I just intimidate them?
You can research the appeal court rulings for yourself (& even start by googling the definition of hearsay).You're confusing/conflating what is only your personal experience with what the law & legal precedent are.
daytona355 said:
I think I'll go by my experience, and keep on winning. No doubt one day the jammer will fail and they will get a reading, but until then, happy trails.
That's fine on a personal basis, but what you say is poor advice for others as a point of law because it is factually incorrect.vonhosen said:
That's fine on a personal basis, but what you say is poor advice for others as a point of law because it is factually incorrect.
Mine wasn't a point of law, it's a point of personal experience, of which I have lots. I Have many friends who are Feds, and they have reaffirmed my experiences. In this area, unless you are prepared to agree when they ask if you were going too fast, anything other than a traffic marked or unmarked car can't nick you for speeding due to the lack of calibrated evidence. At one point, while pulled over by a town panda, I actually rang a traffic officer I know, and asked him to confirm whether the cop was in the right whilst on hands free at full volume, and he confirmed for that officer that he needed to go find something else to do!Speeding is an outright offence, if you are PROVED by use of a home office approved device to have been speeding, or if you ACCEPT or confirm that you were speeding/going a bit quick/too fast/not sure etc, they can stick you on. If, however, you have the forethought to vehemently deny any problem, and confirm that you were carefully making sure your speed was correct, and demonstrate the knowledge of the limit in which you are travelling, they have NO CASE. They may try to cajole you into admitting guilt, make an assumption you will collapse into a fit of remorse, or generally lose your bottle, but proof is king, and if they haven't got it, they don't get the points for the ticket
As I have so much experience of these Feds trying it on, here's another incident, as always, I bang on a bit, but I promise it's worth it.
A couple years ago, the day before xmas eve, my mate spent the evening at mine after visiting a back specialist I recommended, and by 1am, it was time to drive him back. I did this, and er indoors came along for the ride, lying in the back of the Range Rover for the journey. On the way back home, we were on the ring road, and came upon a roundabout, one of lots, where a traffic light is present before it, and then on it as well. As I've said before, I don't hang about, and it's a supercharged rangie, blacked out windows, etc etc. I waited for the red to join the roundabout, nothing around save an old fiesta waiting at the next entry into the roundabout, as I got the green. Immediately I pulled away, the lights started to change to red at the next set, so having looked once, I knew I'd beat the light and certainly the old banger waiting. As I went through, I noticed a riot van behind the fiesta! Duh!
Turned to the Mrs, told her to keep her mouth shut as the cops were bound to pull us at that time of night, and started down the dual carriageway, noting the limit change to 50. Once I saw the blue flashing lights come onto my route, I slowed and set the cruise to 50, letting them slowly catch up. To be funny, when they got behind me, I played the Good Samaritan for a bit and waved them past out the window to go on with their 'job' and then, when they declined, I pulled over opposite a pub on the DC. A lady cop came to my window, I asked if I could be of help to her, she said no, can we have a word.. Walked back with her to the Daf riot van, and sat on the edge of the seat so they couldn't shut the door.
Van was full of cops, and one really aggressive skinheaded driver, who immediately told me I knew what I had done, so come clean. I asked him what he meant, and he claimed I was doing 80 in a 50, and I would lose my licence. I laughed, and told him to check my telematics, I was doing 50, so he swore that he had to do 80 to catch me. I agreed, he must have had to exceed my speed to catch me from a standing start in such a decrepit old van, but that if we had both been doing 80, he could never have caught me. He then told me 'tough, I've got it on tape' and pointed to the centre console.
I think I may have annoyed him somewhat with my reply 'there's a video camera in the ashtray?' He said, it's a video, and I said, bull, there's no video in the ashtray. He immediately then told me 'you've clearly been drinking heavily, how much have you had?' Shocked as I was, I laughed, counted out, and replied 14 or 16.
Imagine his surprise when the little diddy breathalyser iPhone machine said zero. It was only after it did this that I advised him I thought by drink, he meant any drink, not alcoholic, and I had meant coffee! Being Sicilian, I drink ridiculous amounts of espresso, so who knew! Hahahahaha. The van was rocking. Trouble for him is, I NEVER drink and drive, and rarely have a drink even if I'm not, I just don't bother, especially since I get pulled over at least once every three times I go out at night given the cars I drive and hence, get so used to the bs they come out with sometimes.
I stepped down out the van, and walked back. Now usually, I always lock the car when I leave it, so they need a warrant to search it since im all legal, I'm not a drug dealer and I don't do prostitutes (honest guv), but this time as er indoors was in the back, I had left it unlocked. As I accelerated away like a b......d she told me that the cop lady had been trying to look inside, and opened the doors, to find her led on the back seat. My Mrs is 26, but looks about 15 without her makeup, so she asked her if she was okay, and when answered in the positive, the copper said 'better settle down, we will have your boyfriend for drink driving' to which my Mrs, in a rare state of quick witted humour, simply said 'good luck with that' and rolled over and went back to snoozing!
A couple years ago, the day before xmas eve, my mate spent the evening at mine after visiting a back specialist I recommended, and by 1am, it was time to drive him back. I did this, and er indoors came along for the ride, lying in the back of the Range Rover for the journey. On the way back home, we were on the ring road, and came upon a roundabout, one of lots, where a traffic light is present before it, and then on it as well. As I've said before, I don't hang about, and it's a supercharged rangie, blacked out windows, etc etc. I waited for the red to join the roundabout, nothing around save an old fiesta waiting at the next entry into the roundabout, as I got the green. Immediately I pulled away, the lights started to change to red at the next set, so having looked once, I knew I'd beat the light and certainly the old banger waiting. As I went through, I noticed a riot van behind the fiesta! Duh!
Turned to the Mrs, told her to keep her mouth shut as the cops were bound to pull us at that time of night, and started down the dual carriageway, noting the limit change to 50. Once I saw the blue flashing lights come onto my route, I slowed and set the cruise to 50, letting them slowly catch up. To be funny, when they got behind me, I played the Good Samaritan for a bit and waved them past out the window to go on with their 'job' and then, when they declined, I pulled over opposite a pub on the DC. A lady cop came to my window, I asked if I could be of help to her, she said no, can we have a word.. Walked back with her to the Daf riot van, and sat on the edge of the seat so they couldn't shut the door.
Van was full of cops, and one really aggressive skinheaded driver, who immediately told me I knew what I had done, so come clean. I asked him what he meant, and he claimed I was doing 80 in a 50, and I would lose my licence. I laughed, and told him to check my telematics, I was doing 50, so he swore that he had to do 80 to catch me. I agreed, he must have had to exceed my speed to catch me from a standing start in such a decrepit old van, but that if we had both been doing 80, he could never have caught me. He then told me 'tough, I've got it on tape' and pointed to the centre console.
I think I may have annoyed him somewhat with my reply 'there's a video camera in the ashtray?' He said, it's a video, and I said, bull, there's no video in the ashtray. He immediately then told me 'you've clearly been drinking heavily, how much have you had?' Shocked as I was, I laughed, counted out, and replied 14 or 16.
Imagine his surprise when the little diddy breathalyser iPhone machine said zero. It was only after it did this that I advised him I thought by drink, he meant any drink, not alcoholic, and I had meant coffee! Being Sicilian, I drink ridiculous amounts of espresso, so who knew! Hahahahaha. The van was rocking. Trouble for him is, I NEVER drink and drive, and rarely have a drink even if I'm not, I just don't bother, especially since I get pulled over at least once every three times I go out at night given the cars I drive and hence, get so used to the bs they come out with sometimes.
I stepped down out the van, and walked back. Now usually, I always lock the car when I leave it, so they need a warrant to search it since im all legal, I'm not a drug dealer and I don't do prostitutes (honest guv), but this time as er indoors was in the back, I had left it unlocked. As I accelerated away like a b......d she told me that the cop lady had been trying to look inside, and opened the doors, to find her led on the back seat. My Mrs is 26, but looks about 15 without her makeup, so she asked her if she was okay, and when answered in the positive, the copper said 'better settle down, we will have your boyfriend for drink driving' to which my Mrs, in a rare state of quick witted humour, simply said 'good luck with that' and rolled over and went back to snoozing!
daytona355 said:
Now usually, I always lock the car when I leave it, so they need a warrant to search it since im all legal
That's like saying zipping your coat up requires warrant to conduct a person search. The distinction is irrelevant. There are either powers to search or there aren't. A locked / unlocked car makes no difference. So that's terrible advice / knowledge for corroborative evidence, now car searches. Any more criminal law expertise you care to share?
daytona355 said:
or confirm that you were speeding/going a bit quick/too fast/not sure etc, they can stick you on.
An admission alone cannot amount to a conviction. Ever heard of human rights mate? Even plod have to have a reason to search a car or house, or even a person.
Your verbal admission of speeding is enough to stick you on and get you a ticket from a cop with no calibrated evidence. If you don't admit the crime, that's the point, he has to PROVE it
Proof is in the pudding, my licence, zero points, pulled over once every three drives in the fezza at least, so let's say a conservative ten times per annum. Pulls in other cars, more rare but I'd say average every couple months at least.
I must have something right mustn't I.
Your verbal admission of speeding is enough to stick you on and get you a ticket from a cop with no calibrated evidence. If you don't admit the crime, that's the point, he has to PROVE it
Proof is in the pudding, my licence, zero points, pulled over once every three drives in the fezza at least, so let's say a conservative ten times per annum. Pulls in other cars, more rare but I'd say average every couple months at least.
I must have something right mustn't I.
daytona355 said:
Who's loon? And what's half term got to do with things?
Says a lot... 
XCP said:
I got a driver convicted of driving whilst unfit through alcohol, on the basis of mine and another officers opinion that he was drunk. Correctly used there is nothing wrong with opinion evidence. In a speeding case I did not have to prove how fast the car was travelling, just that it was significantly more than the 30 limit as it went past me.
DUI is completely different, and obviously a thousand times more dangerous than going over an arbitrary number! Also, I'd wager, much easier to spot!Saying someone is speeding (IYO) is wildy affected by many factors and should ONLY be convictable with proof! Not an opinion...
daytona355 said:
If what you are saying is correct, then why haven't I got 400 points. I have had Feds pull me ov and claim speeding so many times over the years it's laughable, yet NIL points so far. Either every cop I meet is incompetent, or they are not able to rely upon 'opinion'. Of course, I am probably the last person they want getting out the car, firing off their rules and regs to them so many be I just intimidate them?
If what you are saying is true I have no idea, although as you say it was the Feds I believe they do things differently in America.I have reported/ticketed a lot of people who denied they were speeding. (Most do).
A number went NG & elected for their day in court. I never lost one.
Jim1556 said:
Saying someone is speeding (IYO) is wildy affected by many factors and should ONLY be convictable with proof! Not an opinion...
That's how it is - the legislation calls for more than the say-so of just one person to be sufficient evidence to convict for excess speed (on roads other than motorways, anyway).Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff