Dispute over heating - Landlord & tenant
Discussion
Interesting one for you all, would like the PH expert opinion on this one:
I rent a flat in a converted house, house is 4 stories, each floor is a separate apartment.
The 4 apartments are owned by 2 parties, A and B, who inherited it many years ago. A and B are brother and sister, A owns flat 4 (the flat I rent) B owns flats 1-3. A and B do not get along. B is the freeholder.
The heating for flats 3+4, the top 2 floors, is controlled by one thermostat in a shared hallway with stairs. There is only one boiler and one timer, so we have to effectively share the heating and bills.
This is not ideal, and to be honest we weren't really aware of it before moving in. Bit late after all our stuff arrived.
Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this and apparently informed A, but no one informed me and I have not agreed to this.
B is a bit of a dictator, what he says goes. It's his house (he is the freeholder) and frankly he seems annoyed that A still owns the top floor apartment. He bought apartment 3 from A many years ago.
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for. I have asked B for a meeting with his tenants to discuss and reach a compromise as I'm not using the heating for most of the day, so why should I pay for it. The last bill was about £600 for 2 months heating. The flats are around 1600sq ft each, and the shared hallway/stairs also needs to be heated as that's where the thermostat is.
The tenants of flat 3 are refusing to pay the bill as they feel it is too high (even though they requested the longer times!) and I am getting chased for my half. I have responded by saying that I have not agreed to heating outside of 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs in the evening - which is what I agreed with B last year. He changed it to suit his tenants and didn't even inform me! B's tenants want B to install a new heating system so we can all control our own heating, but B refuses to do this.
The hilarious thing to all this is that this is not some £300k house in the countryside. The house is worth about £25m. A new heating system would probably cost about £15k, go figure. B prefers to have all this hassle rather than spend a trivial amount of money (to him) on his own property. Shows how the other side live!
What rights do I have here? Is it legal for them to have a joint heating system which B controls to his liking and needs and doesn't give a crap about what I want? If I don't pay and dispute it what are my options? Small claims court any use here? I am technically in breach of my own contract for not paying, but it doesn't state in my contract that B is a dictator that chooses what the heating should do and not do. If this doesn't get sorted I will leave, but it's a shame as its a nice property and we have made it our home. It will be impossible to find another flat this size for similar money also.
Give me your views!
I rent a flat in a converted house, house is 4 stories, each floor is a separate apartment.
The 4 apartments are owned by 2 parties, A and B, who inherited it many years ago. A and B are brother and sister, A owns flat 4 (the flat I rent) B owns flats 1-3. A and B do not get along. B is the freeholder.
The heating for flats 3+4, the top 2 floors, is controlled by one thermostat in a shared hallway with stairs. There is only one boiler and one timer, so we have to effectively share the heating and bills.
This is not ideal, and to be honest we weren't really aware of it before moving in. Bit late after all our stuff arrived.
Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this and apparently informed A, but no one informed me and I have not agreed to this.
B is a bit of a dictator, what he says goes. It's his house (he is the freeholder) and frankly he seems annoyed that A still owns the top floor apartment. He bought apartment 3 from A many years ago.
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for. I have asked B for a meeting with his tenants to discuss and reach a compromise as I'm not using the heating for most of the day, so why should I pay for it. The last bill was about £600 for 2 months heating. The flats are around 1600sq ft each, and the shared hallway/stairs also needs to be heated as that's where the thermostat is.
The tenants of flat 3 are refusing to pay the bill as they feel it is too high (even though they requested the longer times!) and I am getting chased for my half. I have responded by saying that I have not agreed to heating outside of 2 hrs in the morning and 2 hrs in the evening - which is what I agreed with B last year. He changed it to suit his tenants and didn't even inform me! B's tenants want B to install a new heating system so we can all control our own heating, but B refuses to do this.
The hilarious thing to all this is that this is not some £300k house in the countryside. The house is worth about £25m. A new heating system would probably cost about £15k, go figure. B prefers to have all this hassle rather than spend a trivial amount of money (to him) on his own property. Shows how the other side live!
What rights do I have here? Is it legal for them to have a joint heating system which B controls to his liking and needs and doesn't give a crap about what I want? If I don't pay and dispute it what are my options? Small claims court any use here? I am technically in breach of my own contract for not paying, but it doesn't state in my contract that B is a dictator that chooses what the heating should do and not do. If this doesn't get sorted I will leave, but it's a shame as its a nice property and we have made it our home. It will be impossible to find another flat this size for similar money also.
Give me your views!
Edited by S1MMA on Friday 5th February 14:28
S1MMA said:
The heating for flats 3+4, the top 2 floors, is controlled by one thermostat in a shared hallway with stairs. There is only one boiler and one timer, so we have to effectively share the heating and bills.
Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for.
This is the only relevant bit.Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for.
You are contractually obliged to pay half the heating bill. The heating hours and temperature are not defined.
S1MMA said:
I am getting chased for my half.
As your tenancy requires you to do.S1MMA said:
What rights do I have here?
You have the right to move if you don't like the tenancy you agreed to.S1MMA said:
It will be impossible to find another flat this size for similar money also.
And that's something you need to factor in to your decision on whether to accept that property as it is, or to move.TooMany2cvs said:
S1MMA said:
The heating for flats 3+4, the top 2 floors, is controlled by one thermostat in a shared hallway with stairs. There is only one boiler and one timer, so we have to effectively share the heating and bills.
Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for.
This is the only relevant bit.Me and the Mrs leave the house at 8am and don't get back before 6pm. So heating on before and after this time is ok for us. One of the tenants in flat 3 however works from home and has asked B to put the heating on for 15 hours a day. B has agreed to this
In my contract it is written that I have to pay half of the heating bills, but that's all it says. It doesn't say who decided what times the heating is on for.
You are contractually obliged to pay half the heating bill. The heating hours and temperature are not defined.
S1MMA said:
I am getting chased for my half.
As your tenancy requires you to do.S1MMA said:
What rights do I have here?
You have the right to move if you don't like the tenancy you agreed to.S1MMA said:
It will be impossible to find another flat this size for similar money also.
And that's something you need to factor in to your decision on whether to accept that property as it is, or to move.The wording of the contract isn't defined wel enough, but as I'm paying for half of the heating I feel I should have 50% say in when it goes on or off. Is that unreasonable?
Playing Devil's advocate here but if the house is worth £25m and there are 4 flats your rent, one would assume, will be at least several £000s a month. Therefore using you own argument isn't this abit silly over a few hundred quid heating bill every few months?
As I said I'm only playing Devil's advocate.
As I said I'm only playing Devil's advocate.
S1MMA said:
So is there any legal requirement for each apartment to either have its own heating system/thermostat?
No.S1MMA said:
The wording of the contract isn't defined wel enough, but as I'm paying for half of the heating I feel I should have 50% say in when it goes on or off. Is that unreasonable?
The wording of the contract was well-enough defined for you to agree to it by signing it.MW-M5 said:
Playing Devil's advocate here but if the house is worth £25m and there are 4 flats your rent, one would assume, will be at least several £000s a month. Therefore using you own argument isn't this abit silly over a few hundred quid heating bill every few months?
As I said I'm only playing Devil's advocate.
I rent one flat, and yes it is several £000 a month. As I said I'm only playing Devil's advocate.
It's more the principal of the matter than the outright cost, I don't like being told that I have to subsidise someone else's heating bill. Does anyone else here pay for their next door neighbors heating?
If you had to buy your next door neighbor their breakfast every day, even though it's a small amount of money relatively it doesn't make it right!
My point here is that I have no say or influence over something that I am paying half of, how is it fair that B can do whatever he wants or his tenant wants and I suffer for it?
Why can I not have the heating on for 4 hours a day and B's tenants suffer the cold all day, rather than the reverse? Why do they have more rights than me?
Hope that makes more sense.
TooMany2cvs said:
S1MMA said:
So is there any legal requirement for each apartment to either have its own heating system/thermostat?
No.S1MMA said:
The wording of the contract isn't defined wel enough, but as I'm paying for half of the heating I feel I should have 50% say in when it goes on or off. Is that unreasonable?
The wording of the contract was well-enough defined for you to agree to it by signing it.The fact that B is a piece of crap that went back on his word and is now trying to screw me over says more about his ethics. Yes, you are right I trusted a landlord and trusted he would stay true to his word, which he hasn't done. Won't do that again. Sorry that we don't live in a society where people stay true to their word - I forgot we are all out to get each other. Thanks for your comments, no need to add anything further.
Jasandjules said:
If there are four flats why are you paying 1/2 to heat all four? Was it made clear to you that there were four flats and you would be paying half the overall heating bill?
The shared heating is just for flats 3+4 - not for all.It was not made clear this was the arrangement before moving in, neither was it made clear to the tenants of flat 3. This is partly why they are not paying.
JM said:
Ask the landlord to fit a heatmeter into each property so you each pay for what you use.
How would this work? Would they have to isolate each flats supply for a meter to be used? Also I assume there would need to be a control of supply to each flat, which currently doesn't exist, it's all or nothing.S1MMA said:
The shared heating is just for flats 3+4 - not for all.
It was not made clear this was the arrangement before moving in, neither was it made clear to the tenants of flat 3. This is partly why they are not paying.
So what action did you take as soon as you became aware that this was the situation ? Did you pay your half of the bills, or did you request a change to the heating arrangements ? It was not made clear this was the arrangement before moving in, neither was it made clear to the tenants of flat 3. This is partly why they are not paying.
S1MMA said:
I had a verbal agreement with B that the heating would be on for 4 hours a day. That is why I signed the contract.
Worth the paper it's written on.If you don't like being a tenant, the answer is simple. Buy your home. If you're paying several grand a month in rent, you can easily afford it.
stuthemong said:
Tell B tenants to get electric heaters for during the day
That was my initial thought - but they are not agreeing to do this. They feel that they should be able to have the heating on when they want to, which I can't argue with, but likewise I should too!What I may suggest is that I will pay for 4 hours heating a day as I agreed to, and split the bill like that. That way I am paying for what I use. I'm not trying to get out of paying, but I won't pay for their heating when I haven't agreed to it.
S1MMA said:
It was not made clear this was the arrangement before moving in
I thought you said it was in the tenancy contract?S1MMA said:
but I won't pay for their heating when I haven't agreed to it.
Yes, you have. You are contractually obliged to pay 50% of the heating cost of the two flats.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff