BBC Panorama - Gangs, Guns and the Police

[Swervin_Mervin]

bigandclever said:

Swervin_Mervin said:

La Liga said:

bigandclever said:

I didn't see the programme, but I'm sure it wasn't that long ago when there was basically a shooting every other day in Gunchester. Maybe 10 years ago?

120 confirmed discharges in 2006.

I suspect bigandclever was probably thinking of events closer to 20 years ago.

Actually it was the other way ...

MEN said:

Back in 2007/08, gun crime in Greater Manchester was running at an average of more than three incidents a day - there were 1,160 incidents in total that year, with 146 shootings alone.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/gun-crime-across-greater-manchester-8645432

Fair enough

[GrumpyV8]

The difference however with the krays (and to a much more obvious extent, the Italian and US mafia) is that aside from those involved directly, they did keep the local community relatively safe for the average joe. The financial impact of their scams were ignored (such as increased prices due to hijack/unions/etc), and hence tolerance was, and continues to be, high
[/quote]

Perhaps older bib could confirm but when Ronnie Kray shot George Cornell in 'The Bind Beggar' ph in the 60's, a pub full of people, no one claimed to have seen a thing?

[drainbrain]

daytona355 said:

People in poor areas are treated so badly by society, and see little opportunity to improve their lot, so they do get overtaken by the thought that the gangsters, while bad people, are 'breaking the mould' and making money. It seems that while drugs are bad, they accept that their youth will be tolerant, maybe participants in the drug scene due to the local environment, so selling drugs is seen as a necessary thing, not necessarily evil. The community decides to pick their local 'heroes' over law and the rest of society as they feel ostracised themselves.

The difference however with the krays (and to a much more obvious extent, the Italian and US mafia) is that aside from those involved directly, they did keep the local community relatively safe for the average joe. The financial impact of their scams were ignored (such as increased prices due to hijack/unions/etc), and hence tolerance was, and continues to be, high

Watch the news any night of the week, particularly the type and scale of ordinance on display, and ask yourself if gangsters are really the big problem in our world.

(agree wholeheartedly with your post btw)

[daytona355]

GrumpyV8 said:

The difference however with the krays (and to a much more obvious extent, the Italian and US mafia) is that aside from those involved directly, they did keep the local community relatively safe for the average joe. The financial impact of their scams were ignored (such as increased prices due to hijack/unions/etc), and hence tolerance was, and continues to be, high

Perhaps older bib could confirm but when Ronnie Kray shot George Cornell in 'The Bind Beggar' ph in the 60's, a pub full of people, no one claimed to have seen a thing?

The regulars of the pub were terrified, but untouched in the incident, as I remember. The barmaid was the one to break the silence eventually, but only once the Kray gang were locked up and it was clear the Feds would be able to keep them inside for a long time.

[offshorematt2]

caelite said:

offshorematt2 said:

Reminds me when I was a retail manager many moons ago. One of our local shops, in a slightly more 'interesting' area had the contents of the backstore freezers knocked off. Busy shop and following interviews, none of the staff apparently saw a thing. Once the CCTV footage was watched, the local villain could be seen to walk in, let himself through the back and open up the loading bay. Then reverse a van in, and unload the freezers. All in all, he was there for fifteen minutes, robbing the lot. Thing was, every member of staff had walked past at some point, and said nowt.
At the end of the day, no minimum wage job was worth grassing the local hard man up for. Would I have done the same? Damn right...

Out of curiosity did any comeback occur towards the staff? In my experience retail managers normally expect the earth for £6.70 an hour .

You know what, I knew someone would ask that and I genuinely can't remember (if I ever knew). Unlikely they would sack everyone but I assume there must have been some sort of disciplinary. As for £6.70 an hour... It was a princely sum of £3.40 for the over eighteens back then I'll have you know . As assisant manager I got £10k pa (for minimum sixty hour weeks), and used to regularly chase junkie shoplifters down the street. Looking back I wonder what I was thinking!