DVLA giving out our details
Discussion
TooMany2cvs said:
Do the double red lines not give you a clue? Do you know what red route marking MEANS? They've been around for 25 years now, so there's no excuse.
That road is not a designated red route - technically it is private land - there is no legislation covering double red lines there, unlike those in London.They probably are a good clue, but do please explain to me how a driver is meant to "Not stop" when they are queuing at the barrier?
TooMany2cvs said:
S11Steve said:
Or first hand experience of how inherently corrupt the private parking industry is.
This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
Do the double red lines not give you a clue? Do you know what red route marking MEANS? They've been around for 25 years now, so there's no excuse.This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
uknick said:
PAULJ5555 said:
You obviously know so whats happening? Is it giving access to medical records so that companies can pressure us into making med neg claims.
A year or so ago all NHS patients were asked if their medical records held at GPs could be used by pharmaceutical companies for research purposes. Edited by PAULJ5555 on Tuesday 9th February 14:56
You were given the option to opt out. If you don't actively opt out consent is assumed.
Whilst guarantees as to the use of data have been made I don't for minute believe they will honoured as the years pass. Therefore, I opted out.
Anonymised patient level data has been available in England for years and is managed by groups such as THIN http://www.ucl.ac.uk/pcph/research-groups-themes/thin-pub/ and CPRD https://www.cprd.com/home/ who are funded by the NHS and the MHRA. It is a very useful research tool and is an area where the UK are generally ahead of the rest of the world. This information is really important to look at disease patterns across areas and also things such as prescribing to ensure that diseases are managed appropriately. Even if it were possible to get down to identifiable data (which we can't and also won't) I really can assure you that we've got better things to do!
As for the insurance companies... Well, I'll let them respond for themselves...
S11Steve said:
deckster said:
Largely because those who 'have beef' are swivel-eyed loons who are too busy adjusting their tinfoil hats to do anything useful.
Or first hand experience of how inherently corrupt the private parking industry is.This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
, but for completeness people also need to be aware that parking at Liverpool John Lennon is governed by the Airport's bye-laws - this defines the car parks as "non-relevant land" for the purposes of POFA2012 and makes parking "enforcement" at the Airport a matter for the magistrates and rules out the use of VCS/Excel completely - VCS/Excel have no right to enforce here. KADOE (the agreement by which VCS/Excel can access registered keeper details, referred to upthread) applies to parking but not to stopping. The professional bodies and the DVLA are not interested in this thorny little issue
.The finger of bentness applies also to the Airport's owners, as well as the DVLA...
On a tangent, as this is private land (not a public highway), double red lines have no legal meaning whatsoever
.TooMany2cvs said:
S11Steve said:
Or first hand experience of how inherently corrupt the private parking industry is.
This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
Do the double red lines not give you a clue? Do you know what red route marking MEANS? They've been around for 25 years now, so there's no excuse.This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
aw51 121565 said:
S11Steve said:
deckster said:
Largely because those who 'have beef' are swivel-eyed loons who are too busy adjusting their tinfoil hats to do anything useful.
Or first hand experience of how inherently corrupt the private parking industry is.This is Liverpool John Lennon Airport, and the entrance to one of the large car parks. See the sign under the billboard, it says "No Stopping" and in small print underneath, something like "£100 charge if you do". The sign further down closer to the barrier is a standard Private Parking sign - usual raft of T&Cs.
To use the car park, you take a ticket at the barrier, and pay on exit. But if there is a queue of cars waiting at the barrier, can you guess what happens?
If you stop to read the terms of the "No Stopping" sign, guess what happens?
This airport, and most railways station car parks are what is referred to as "not relevant land" in accordance with POFA 2012, therefore keeper liability can not be enforced.
This car park is run by Vehicle Control Services/Excel in Sheffield - one of the biggest private parking companies in the UK. They are using Protection of Freedom Act 2012 to obtain and enforce keeper liability at this site. It's been reported to the IPC who are the accredited trade association for VCS/Excel, it was previously reported to the BPA who used to be the ATA, it's been reported to the DVLA, Liverpool JLA are aware of the problem - but nobody is doing anything. POPLA (connected to the BPA) have overturned thousands of appeals for ticket at this site, so VCS moved to the IPC, who operate a sham of an appeals body.
And still, tickets are being issued daily at this location so I can understand why some people consider there to be a conspiracy. Or at best, a lot of fat brown envelopes being passed around.
, but for completeness people also need to be aware that parking at Liverpool John Lennon is governed by the Airport's bye-laws - this defines the car parks as "non-relevant land" for the purposes of POFA2012 and makes parking "enforcement" at the Airport a matter for the magistrates and rules out the use of VCS/Excel completely - VCS/Excel have no right to enforce here. KADOE (the agreement by which VCS/Excel can access registered keeper details, referred to upthread) applies to parking but not to stopping. The professional bodies and the DVLA are not interested in this thorny little issue
.The finger of bentness applies also to the Airport's owners, as well as the DVLA...
On a tangent, as this is private land (not a public highway), double red lines have no legal meaning whatsoever
.If this claim is to be believed JLA has been operating without governing Byelaws for over 30 years.
Unfortunately for the owners (Peel Holdings) the cat was let out of the bag - http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/wri...
This was confirmed by the Parliamentary Under Secretary of State responsible for airports Robert Goodwill MP who stated in response to an enquiry by a MoP
"Please find enclosed a copy of the Byelaws that are currently in force at Liverpool John Lennon Airport which date from 1982"
Needless to say all this caused a lot consternation in certain corporates offices. The owners are frantically trying to get updated ones written and in place.
The local authority doesn't come out of it smelling of roses either. It would appear that no planning consent was ever given for any of the signs, so a criminal offence was being committed and no action was taken. Hence the following retrospective application - http://northgate.liverpool.gov.uk/PlanningExplorer...
This FoI request reveals a very interesting connection - https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/traffic_and...
The problem with private land is that it encompasses such a wide range of scenarios. There is a world of difference between, for example, the car park of a block of flats and a retail park/motorway service area/etc where the public is actively encouraged/invited onto the land. It shouldn't be beyond human ingenuity to come up with a solution though. Three years is quite long enough to show that the current arrangements have serious shortcomings. To take but one example: having rival ATAs vying for PPC business is a nonsense and should never have been permitted.
PAULJ5555 said:
How do the DVLA get away with providing our details to private companies/individuals. The NHS/police don't do it so why the DVLA.
Supposing you stay over your time in a car park, surely you would want the car park owners to be able to go to the DVLA to get your details?Wouldn't you?
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