Police - excessive force on this week's news
Discussion
Where was the threat. The man was calm, he obviously didn't want to lay on the floor and why was it required?! (over an alleged fare dodge). Then the baton is drawn, ontop of this it was a really ineffective strike.
We're they both new? Why did it get to this? Jesus wept
https://youtu.be/K9_tGKfz4PQ
We're they both new? Why did it get to this? Jesus wept
https://youtu.be/K9_tGKfz4PQ
I feel there is context to this incident which the video doesn't portray.
If it is the case that the man just dodged a fare (wrong obviously) then the Police do seem to be overreacting - not to mention causing a whole load of fuss over something which could be dealt with quickly and easily.
If it is the case that the man just dodged a fare (wrong obviously) then the Police do seem to be overreacting - not to mention causing a whole load of fuss over something which could be dealt with quickly and easily.
AH33 said:
Why should he get on the floor? Even if the guy was evading a fare, that doesn't warrant this sort of response. Police should be trained to not escalate minor things into major problems.
He was repeating 'I'll go with you'. Crackers isn't it. Theres a police saying 'go in with your slippers, you can always boot your boots on later'.That made me angry watching it, there might have been something prior to the video but that BTP screaming and hitting the guy with an asp trying to get him on the ground "because I say so" is embarrassing and worrying, and the fact it took nearly 10 of them to arrest a guy who only wanted to know what he was being arrested for? Deary me!!! 
Looked like a Benny Hill sketch when all the backup arrived, not sure blocking camera phones is the best use of police time.
The officer on the right at the beginning seems very worked up, even his colleague takes a step back. If the plan was to arrest him why didn't they work together and do that or were they just waiting for more officers?
If the plan was to wait then that could have been done without the tussling and hitting.
(Armchair hindsight off)
The officer on the right at the beginning seems very worked up, even his colleague takes a step back. If the plan was to arrest him why didn't they work together and do that or were they just waiting for more officers?
If the plan was to wait then that could have been done without the tussling and hitting.
(Armchair hindsight off)
king clowns. Plain and simple.Oh, he says he'll go with the police. That's OK then. People who allegedly commit dishonest offences (if the fare dodging is accurate) always magically become honest and tell the truth when under arrest. They never look to escape or take advantage of being unrestrained...
The officers have decided to make an arrest and have decided to handcuff. That is what is going to happen. The person arrested can either make that easy or harder. The officers want it to be easy.
He's clearly not being compliant or calm - in what world do people think that's the case? It takes very little resistance to make handcuffing and arresting hard work. If someone's doing enough to prevent you from handcuffing and arresting them e.g. pulling their arms away and physically moving away from you, then you need to escalate to level in order to arrest and handcuff.
They tried 1) officer presence 2) verbal communication 3) primary control skills (restraint). A clear patten of escalation and proportionality.
Whilst you're dancing around with them in close proximity as they pull and move away, then you're at risk. They could escalate against you at any point. Generally, the longer this goes on the more likely it is to occur.
The floor is generally the safest place to arrest someone. Police training pretty much teaches to take non-compliant people to the floor for safety reasons. The problem here is you need the capability to do it.
Batons are a waste of time on large muscle groups unless you're built and skilled like a baseball player. They also look a lot worse than the damage they're likely to inflict.
I'm not one for shouting at people. You can't really go anywhere above it.
Handcuffs shouldn't really be out until there's control but this is often compromised.
It's not a good arrest from a safety point of view. Once he'd shown he was unwilling to be handcuffed through verbal resistance, moving away and moving his arms away then they needed to be more effective.
Keeping a safe distance and deploying PAVA (pepper spray) would be more effective.
The officers have decided to make an arrest and have decided to handcuff. That is what is going to happen. The person arrested can either make that easy or harder. The officers want it to be easy.
He's clearly not being compliant or calm - in what world do people think that's the case? It takes very little resistance to make handcuffing and arresting hard work. If someone's doing enough to prevent you from handcuffing and arresting them e.g. pulling their arms away and physically moving away from you, then you need to escalate to level in order to arrest and handcuff.
They tried 1) officer presence 2) verbal communication 3) primary control skills (restraint). A clear patten of escalation and proportionality.
Whilst you're dancing around with them in close proximity as they pull and move away, then you're at risk. They could escalate against you at any point. Generally, the longer this goes on the more likely it is to occur.
The floor is generally the safest place to arrest someone. Police training pretty much teaches to take non-compliant people to the floor for safety reasons. The problem here is you need the capability to do it.
Batons are a waste of time on large muscle groups unless you're built and skilled like a baseball player. They also look a lot worse than the damage they're likely to inflict.
I'm not one for shouting at people. You can't really go anywhere above it.
Handcuffs shouldn't really be out until there's control but this is often compromised.
It's not a good arrest from a safety point of view. Once he'd shown he was unwilling to be handcuffed through verbal resistance, moving away and moving his arms away then they needed to be more effective.
Keeping a safe distance and deploying PAVA (pepper spray) would be more effective.
MrBarry123 said:
causing a whole load of fuss over something which could be dealt with quickly and easily.
Could it? How do you know that? La Liga said:
The officers have decided to make an arrest and have decided to handcuff. That is what is going to happen.
If he was fare dodging, then the decision to make an arrest was OTT. "That is what is going to happen" - is that the world you want to live in? Where some prick can arbitrarily decide to relieve you of your liberty for something so minor? Arrest should be a last resort, intended to get dangerous people off the street, and misuse of it should rightly be highlighted and individual officers held to account.Bigends said:
Poorly handled no matter how you look at it. He was displaying passive resistance, shrugging the officers off - they then start with defensive blows!!
It's active resistance. AH33 said:
La Liga said:
The officers have decided to make an arrest and have decided to handcuff. That is what is going to happen.
If he was fare dodging, then the decision to make an arrest was OTT. "That is what is going to happen" - is that the world you want to live in? Where some prick can arbitrarily decide to relieve you of your liberty for something so minor? Arrest should be a last resort, intended to get dangerous people off the street, and misuse of it should rightly be highlighted and individual officers held to account.You have no idea. The offence isn't relevant. It's the the necessity criteria which is.
AH33 said:
"That is what is going to happen" - is that the world you want to live in?
If you believe an arrest isn't lawful then the remedy isn't achieved on the street. It's through the force's PSD, the IPCC or through civil means. anonymous said:
[redacted]
Why's that? anonymous said:
[redacted]
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