Caught doing 113mph....pleading not guilty?

Caught doing 113mph....pleading not guilty?

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Liokault

Original Poster:

2,837 posts

214 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
The guy who has the desk next to me at work was caught doing 113 on an Mway.


He was followed by a police can over a fair distance, it looks like they had no specific speed detection equipment, going from what my associate is telling me, just video with an MPH of the police car and time.


Anyway my question: My friends legal team(?) have advised him to not turn up at court and to plead not guilty.

He is happy to admit to going 70+, but not 110+.

Surly he’s better off pleading guilty to speeding, then arguing that it was less than 110, or am I understanding this wrong?



y2blade

56,091 posts

215 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
The guy who has the desk next to me at work was caught doing 113 on an Mway.


He was followed by a police can over a fair distance, it looks like they had no specific speed detection equipment, going from what my associate is telling me, just video with an MPH of the police car and time.


Anyway my question: My friends legal team(?) have advised him to not turn up at court and to plead not guilty.

He is happy to admit to going 70+, but not 110+.

Surly he’s better off pleading guilty to speeding, then arguing that it was less than 110, or am I understanding this wrong?
your "friend" ???? or you?

speedking31

3,556 posts

136 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
... just video with an MPH of the police car and time."
What is your colleague's counter evidence, e.g. I was driving a tractor which is incapable of exceeding 20 mph.

CS Garth

2,860 posts

105 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
I'd say the reason is that the difference in sentence between pleading guilty and innocent for speeding is fairly neglible - the points are pretty formulaic if found guilty. If you don't show up and go innocent the burden is on the police to prove and any number of admin technicalities can result in a case failing.


PurpleMoonlight

22,362 posts

157 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
He is happy to admit to going 70+, but not 110+.
What speed was he doing?

Beetnik

509 posts

184 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
First thing he needs to do is find a new 'legal team'.

CYMR0

3,940 posts

200 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
It may be a preliminary hearing, at which point there will be an allocation to trial, with a view to entering a guilty plea on a contested basis (a Newton Hearing) or by agreement with the prosecution - a basis of plea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton_hearing

If you simply enter a guilty plea at the earliest opportunity, none of the facts would be contested and the case would proceed straight to sentencing, although it is possible to enter a guilty plea on a reserved basis ("Attorney General's reference (nos 41, 42, 43, 44 and 45 of 2011) [2011] EWCA Crim 2174).

I presume that there is good reason to believe that the 113 mph figure is inaccurate.

jith

2,752 posts

215 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
The guy who has the desk next to me at work was caught doing 113 on an Mway.


He was followed by a police can over a fair distance, it looks like they had no specific speed detection equipment, going from what my associate is telling me, just video with an MPH of the police car and time.


Anyway my question: My friends legal team(?) have advised him to not turn up at court and to plead not guilty.

He is happy to admit to going 70+, but not 110+.

Surly he’s better off pleading guilty to speeding, then arguing that it was less than 110, or am I understanding this wrong?
As someone else has already said, your friend needs a new legal team. If the police had video recording equipment in the car that is the evidence of speed. It will be Police Pilot or something similar which is based on Vascar linked to recording equipment. They will have used this over a fixed distance to come up with a figure of speed.

He can ask for a copy of the recording and examine the procedure they used, but it's very difficult to argue against if they followed the correct procedure. However, frequently they don't.

J

Liokault

Original Poster:

2,837 posts

214 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
CYMR0 said:
I presume that there is good reason to believe that the 113 mph figure is inaccurate.
Unclear, but I think it’s based on the difference in ban between sub 110 and over 110 mph along with the manner in which his speed was calculated by the police (single officer in a car,with video), makes it worth arguing over.


Incidentally, we were just chatting about this over lunch, he was unaware that he had to retake his test after a ban, not just get his license handed back to him (I have limited sympathy for him, but I shouldn’t be finding this as funny as I do).

The office we're sitting in is about 270 miles from his house, so his ability to drive is important to him.




Durzel

12,258 posts

168 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Someone doing 113mph will be remarkable on the motorway, so there's no chance at all of him being able to suggest that he wasn't doing 100+ even based solely on the testimony of the officers involved.

Durzel

12,258 posts

168 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
How would he (honestly) say his driving was other than the speed? In other words, if the video shows a standard of driving that falls below that expected of a competent driver, or otherwise shows aggravating circumstances - traffic density, etc - then does he really want that shown in court?

Elroy Blue

8,687 posts

192 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
I work single crewed all the time. It makes no difference. The Provida fitted to my car is a video with time/distance equipment.

A picture (or video) speaks a thousand words. They are pretty compelling when played in court.

Sheepshanks

32,719 posts

119 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
Incidentally, we were just chatting about this over lunch, he was unaware that he had to retake his test after a ban, not just get his license handed back to him
That's not correct.

Liokault

Original Poster:

2,837 posts

214 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
Liokault said:
Incidentally, we were just chatting about this over lunch, he was unaware that he had to retake his test after a ban, not just get his license handed back to him
That's not correct.
Bugger, really? He just gets it back?

rgw2012

598 posts

143 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Having recently had a ban (14 days), I can assure you he won't have to retake his test - they didn't even take my licence off me, just reminded me that it was illegal to drive whilst banned

simonrockman

6,848 posts

255 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
When I am King of the World this is the first thing I'd change. I'd make the punishment a 0 day ban but you have to retake your test. I'd also make testing annual. A licence isn't a right, you need to prove you deserve it.

Of course you can't do that instantly so I'd make all new licences only last 5 years until you need a re-test and then work down to every year so that the testing infrastructure can grow to cope with the demand.

The next thing on the list is to look at places which have lots of offences and no accidents and then decide if it's right to criminalise people who are clearly not doing anything dangerous.

Simon

Liokault

Original Poster:

2,837 posts

214 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
rgw2012 said:
Having recently had a ban (14 days), I can assure you he won't have to retake his test - they didn't even take my licence off me, just reminded me that it was illegal to drive whilst banned
Google is telling me that a ban over 56 days probably needs a retake

agtlaw

6,702 posts

206 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
Liokault said:
Google is telling me that a ban over 56 days probably needs a retake
Google is wrong.

Liokault

Original Poster:

2,837 posts

214 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
agtlaw said:
Liokault said:
Google is telling me that a ban over 56 days probably needs a retake
Google is wrong.
Nice input. I forgot why I stopped bothering making threads, I remember now.

So what is correct in law?

Tam_Mullen

2,288 posts

172 months

Monday 4th April 2016
quotequote all
A re-test has to be specified at sentencing I believe.

and agtlaw will have given a short answer because he is an actual Lawyer (I think?) and you're taking your information from google.

Edited by Tam_Mullen on Monday 4th April 14:44