Contract cancellation issue, where do I stand?
Discussion
I had a salesmen in for ONE bay window, he was in the house three hours.
His first pitch was £1600, and he came down to £395 in a series of four of five stages.
This was in 1984. (A lot of money then)
I said I'd think about it and he left, calling me all the names under the sun...
If he had said £395 in the first place, he would have been done and dusted in ten minutes....
His first pitch was £1600, and he came down to £395 in a series of four of five stages.
This was in 1984. (A lot of money then)
I said I'd think about it and he left, calling me all the names under the sun...
If he had said £395 in the first place, he would have been done and dusted in ten minutes....
Wacky Racer said:
I had a salesmen in for ONE bay window, he was in the house three hours.
His first pitch was £1600, and he came down to £395 in a series of four of five stages.
This was in 1984. (A lot of money then)
I said I'd think about it and he left, calling me all the names under the sun...
If he had said £395 in the first place, he would have been done and dusted in ten minutes....
About that time I used to drink with a group of double glazing salesmen, all entertaining characters who would vary their selling times between three hours when they'd not got much on down to ten minutes if it was late Friday afternoon and they were thirsty. Eventually they realized that they had more success, and far better recommendations and repeat business just doing the one price. If only that had become the norm ...His first pitch was £1600, and he came down to £395 in a series of four of five stages.
This was in 1984. (A lot of money then)
I said I'd think about it and he left, calling me all the names under the sun...
If he had said £395 in the first place, he would have been done and dusted in ten minutes....
I just won't deal with people like this. I go to a trade outlet (who sell to anyone), tell them what the dimension are, and they produce the right price - end of. Maybe they are a rarity. On the odd occasion where I'm buying something else (from someone else) and I know they're haggle merchants, I just say "you have one opportunity to give me your best price" they then invariably (when I start to walk away) say "Oh...but I can do......" I just tell them I'll be going somewhere else. More people should do this, it focuses the salesman!
Fastpedeller said:
I just won't deal with people like this. I go to a trade outlet (who sell to anyone), tell them what the dimension are, and they produce the right price - end of. Maybe they are a rarity. On the odd occasion where I'm buying something else (from someone else) and I know they're haggle merchants, I just say "you have one opportunity to give me your best price" they then invariably (when I start to walk away) say "Oh...but I can do......" I just tell them I'll be going somewhere else. More people should do this, it focuses the salesman!
The problem is most people (both sides) don't know how to negotiate in a non-adversarial manner,Yours is a case in point.
Vaud said:
Fastpedeller said:
I just won't deal with people like this. I go to a trade outlet (who sell to anyone), tell them what the dimension are, and they produce the right price - end of. Maybe they are a rarity. On the odd occasion where I'm buying something else (from someone else) and I know they're haggle merchants, I just say "you have one opportunity to give me your best price" they then invariably (when I start to walk away) say "Oh...but I can do......" I just tell them I'll be going somewhere else. More people should do this, it focuses the salesman!
The problem is most people (both sides) don't know how to negotiate in a non-adversarial manner,Yours is a case in point.
Definitely cancel. We had windows and doors fitted by them. Of the 11 windows / doors they fitted, only three did not have problems. But two of these have a transom at eye height blocking the view out for anyone between 5'1" and 5'8", which arguably they should have spotted and advised against.
They damaged a wooden floor which had to be ripped up and replaced. They wanted me to pay them in full for their work and submit a claim for the damage. Sod that, I deducted the repair cost from their bill and invited them to sue if they disagreed.
They eventually rectified all but one of the issues we had, leaving the plasterwork around the inside of our front door patched with polyfiller, applied with a 2" knife by a fitter with all the skill and attention of a paraplegic two year old having a tantrum. At this stage I just wanted them out of the house.
Also one of the fitters blocked my loo and left the toilet brush holder filled with 6" of dark brown fluid.
Despite having repeatedly complained to them and repeatedly asking to be removed from their phone list, I still get regular calls asking if I'd like to consider a conservatory. In the end I installed a call blocker to deal with them.
Get a friend to invite the same salesman around. Hide a camera in the room & video the sales pitch. Ask the question, "If I do decide to sign, how long do I have to cancel?" Assuming he gives the same 14 day lie, that should be all the evidence you need to tip any court case they bring in your favour.
IAN however AL.
They damaged a wooden floor which had to be ripped up and replaced. They wanted me to pay them in full for their work and submit a claim for the damage. Sod that, I deducted the repair cost from their bill and invited them to sue if they disagreed.
They eventually rectified all but one of the issues we had, leaving the plasterwork around the inside of our front door patched with polyfiller, applied with a 2" knife by a fitter with all the skill and attention of a paraplegic two year old having a tantrum. At this stage I just wanted them out of the house.
Also one of the fitters blocked my loo and left the toilet brush holder filled with 6" of dark brown fluid.
Despite having repeatedly complained to them and repeatedly asking to be removed from their phone list, I still get regular calls asking if I'd like to consider a conservatory. In the end I installed a call blocker to deal with them.
Get a friend to invite the same salesman around. Hide a camera in the room & video the sales pitch. Ask the question, "If I do decide to sign, how long do I have to cancel?" Assuming he gives the same 14 day lie, that should be all the evidence you need to tip any court case they bring in your favour.
IAN however AL.
My wife reminded my that we actually specifically asked about the seven day period and that the salesman had assured us we could ignore that as it was most certainly fourteen days. I had forgotten this as I only recalled the fact that we'd asked on a number of occasions and got the same answer each time.
Last night we weighing up the risk of them suing against the financial issues and the desire not to have windows from this company at all.
Email and letter copy of cancellation form sent along with covering letter stating the salesman mis-informed us of the cancellation period and (paraphrasing) I trust that this is not normal practice and that they will honour the cancellation and return my deposit.
Now we wait.
Last night we weighing up the risk of them suing against the financial issues and the desire not to have windows from this company at all.
Email and letter copy of cancellation form sent along with covering letter stating the salesman mis-informed us of the cancellation period and (paraphrasing) I trust that this is not normal practice and that they will honour the cancellation and return my deposit.
Now we wait.
Cancel, and find out where their head office is. https://www.moneyclaim.gov.uk/web/mcol/welcome to get your deposit back.
If you and your wife come across as honest it will be an easy win, if it actually gets as far as court (which it probably won't).
If you and your wife come across as honest it will be an easy win, if it actually gets as far as court (which it probably won't).
A short and polite email to the office of the CEO won't hurt as well. Factual, 4/5 bullet points and a very clear request.
http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=b-8998
http://www.ceoemail.com/s.php?id=b-8998
Were you going to pay the total cost or would there have been any finance deal. A finance deal has a cooling off period.
If the salesman did not measure all your windows they cannot have started production without another visit to get detailed sizes etc. Consequently the windows he expected to sell to you were stock/standard items in which case they would not need to be custom made and the 14 day period stands.
If you cancelled inside the 14 days but more than 7 days I'd still request a refund - was it over 7 'working days'?
If the salesman did not measure all your windows they cannot have started production without another visit to get detailed sizes etc. Consequently the windows he expected to sell to you were stock/standard items in which case they would not need to be custom made and the 14 day period stands.
If you cancelled inside the 14 days but more than 7 days I'd still request a refund - was it over 7 'working days'?
It was a finance deal - which definitely had a 14 day cooling off period - however this would still leave me having to pay for the windows at the increased (non-financed) price if I cancelled it.
The salesman measured and quoted, a surveyor was to visit to do proper measurements but I wouldn't let them as I was cancelling. This was when the lady on the phone cheerfully informed me I was outside of the 7 day cancellation period. I gathered from her reaction that it probably wasn't the first time she'd had this conversation, she didn't even seem remotely bothered or surprised to hear the salesman had informed us multiple times it was 14 days.
It was not working days but rather calendar days.
Nothing has been made, or properly measured.
I've had an auto-reply to the email, the letter will have arrived this morning special delivery. Assume there will be at least some threats and cajoling to endure before anything happens.
Seems the outcomes are something from the following:
1.) I'll get my £99 back.
2.) The contract will be cancelled but I'll lose my £99. Up to me if I fight this
3.) WindowsRus Ltd will sue me for breach of contract and come after me for loss of commission and profit.
The salesman measured and quoted, a surveyor was to visit to do proper measurements but I wouldn't let them as I was cancelling. This was when the lady on the phone cheerfully informed me I was outside of the 7 day cancellation period. I gathered from her reaction that it probably wasn't the first time she'd had this conversation, she didn't even seem remotely bothered or surprised to hear the salesman had informed us multiple times it was 14 days.
It was not working days but rather calendar days.
Nothing has been made, or properly measured.
I've had an auto-reply to the email, the letter will have arrived this morning special delivery. Assume there will be at least some threats and cajoling to endure before anything happens.
Seems the outcomes are something from the following:
1.) I'll get my £99 back.
2.) The contract will be cancelled but I'll lose my £99. Up to me if I fight this
3.) WindowsRus Ltd will sue me for breach of contract and come after me for loss of commission and profit.
Edited by _dobbo_ on Thursday 7th April 12:12
I believe there's something called moneyclaimonline to recover your 99 if not willingly repaid. £99 is an odd number, is that a scam to avoid you reclaiming via credit card refund?
You know replacement windows have been discussed many times on Pistonheads and the advice always given is to avoid national chains and get quotes only from local companies who are always cheaper and better and they don't go in for hard sell scams.
You know replacement windows have been discussed many times on Pistonheads and the advice always given is to avoid national chains and get quotes only from local companies who are always cheaper and better and they don't go in for hard sell scams.
Edited by herewego on Thursday 7th April 10:55
Just had a call from the salesman. Struggled a bit to keep my cool but remained quite calm in the end.
SALESMAN: The cancellation period is actually 7 days, when I said 14 I was only talking about the credit agreement.
ME: I asked you explicitly, "what is my financial exposure if I cancel within 14 days?" You said "none". What you should have actually said is "the full, undiscounted cost of the windows". Those are two quite different answers don't you agree?
SALESMAN: Well, I'm not going to argue with you about it, I'll see what I can do...
SALESMAN: The cancellation period is actually 7 days, when I said 14 I was only talking about the credit agreement.
ME: I asked you explicitly, "what is my financial exposure if I cancel within 14 days?" You said "none". What you should have actually said is "the full, undiscounted cost of the windows". Those are two quite different answers don't you agree?
SALESMAN: Well, I'm not going to argue with you about it, I'll see what I can do...
What a bunch of cretins. How they think this is ever going to work well for them I have no idea. When people have a good experience with a company, they might tell 2-3 others. When they have a bad one, they tell 5x that or more! Negative feedback travels far faster.
I can't believe they still try and use those types of selling techniques; if I ever ended up with someone like that sat in my home giving me bulls
t about 'special today-only deals' I'd tell them to get fked, pronto. I hope you get this bunch to back down and your deposit back.
As others have said, find a good local company and hopefully you'll have a much better experience.
Edit: Also write down the exact conversation you had with the salesman on the call just now and email/send it to the management you sent the original communication to, stating exactly what he said. No doubt he'll deny having said it. With him saying he'll '...see what he can do..' you've left the ball in his park; I suspect what he will 'do' is 'fk-all'. Do you have a way to record calls in future?
I can't believe they still try and use those types of selling techniques; if I ever ended up with someone like that sat in my home giving me bulls
t about 'special today-only deals' I'd tell them to get fked, pronto. I hope you get this bunch to back down and your deposit back.As others have said, find a good local company and hopefully you'll have a much better experience.
Edit: Also write down the exact conversation you had with the salesman on the call just now and email/send it to the management you sent the original communication to, stating exactly what he said. No doubt he'll deny having said it. With him saying he'll '...see what he can do..' you've left the ball in his park; I suspect what he will 'do' is 'f
k-all'. Do you have a way to record calls in future?Edited by Funk on Thursday 7th April 13:34
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