12 Points on the Horizon...
Discussion
In the mid 90s, having got to 6 points, I stopped all speeding for 18 months. Just never broke the limit, anywhere. I had a Peugeot 309GTI at the time. My average mpg went from around 25 to 40 mpg. A 60% increase. I was quids in.
If everyone did it, and everyone saw a similar improvement, can someone in the fuel industry who knows the figures work out the drop in govt fuel duty revenue?
If everyone did it, and everyone saw a similar improvement, can someone in the fuel industry who knows the figures work out the drop in govt fuel duty revenue?
REALIST123 said:
Frankly you have to be pretty dumb, or in a permanent fog to get caught under totting up, and a ban is exactly what he deserves.
Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
I used to work in company with quite a large fleet and it was amazing how people who had clean records for years would get a bunch of speeding tickets in a short space of time - two close colleague got 9 points within 2 weeks, and then spent the next 3yrs being absolutely terrified of having to drive any where.Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
I have some sympathy for people that get a clutch of tickets for the same camera in a short period, so they are picking up their 3rd or 4th offence before they have received the NIP for the first one. They haven't been given the opportunity to modify their behaviour.
But those people aside, totting up bans for 3 point offences x 4 are for idiots. IMHO.
But those people aside, totting up bans for 3 point offences x 4 are for idiots. IMHO.
roofer said:
Grandad Gaz said:
I've seen a lot of those "animals in road" signs over the years but, never actually seen an offending animal!
Makes you wonder.
Indeed, I had clear vision for at least a mile...not even a Sparrow.Makes you wonder.
Although there are several animal tunnels, quite often a deer manages to somehow get onto the motorway and cause chaos. Even though they usually leave again pretty sharpish they sometimes leave the sign on in case they decide to come and have another look. Not the brightest of animals.
There was one dead on the M11/M25 slip the other day, suspect it had made a serious mess of someone's car judging by the bits of plastic everywhere.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
REALIST123 said:
b
ks. People like the OP are why the speed camera industry exists. End of story.
Frankly you have to be pretty dumb, or in a permanent fog to get caught under totting up, and a ban is exactly what he deserves.
Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
Harsh, but fair.ks. People like the OP are why the speed camera industry exists. End of story. Frankly you have to be pretty dumb, or in a permanent fog to get caught under totting up, and a ban is exactly what he deserves.
Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
All it takes is 2 90-somethings on the Motorway at 6 points a time and there's your totting up. And not seeing a camera van over half a mile away until it's too late isn't demonstrative of the lack of awareness you two possess.
funkyrobot said:
To be fair to Twig, it would be interesting to see what would happen if everyone stuck to the limits for 6 months.
It does bear some consideration. About two years after the congestion charge was introduced in London I read some analysis that showed the only thing keeping the whole shebang afloat was the fines collected from people who hadn't paid. Allegedly if everyone who had entered the congestion zone over the previous few years had paid up they would've been out of business.
cmaguire said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
REALIST123 said:
bks. People like the OP are why the speed camera industry exists. End of story.
Frankly you have to be pretty dumb, or in a permanent fog to get caught under totting up, and a ban is exactly what he deserves.
Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
Harsh, but fair.ks. People like the OP are why the speed camera industry exists. End of story. Frankly you have to be pretty dumb, or in a permanent fog to get caught under totting up, and a ban is exactly what he deserves.
Nothing to do with the morals of driving above the limit or not, simply a matter of removing from the roads those who clearly have no idea what's happening around them.
All it takes is 2 90-somethings on the Motorway at 6 points a time and there's your totting up. And not seeing a camera van over half a mile away until it's too late isn't demonstrative of the lack of awareness you two possess.
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I already had 6 points on my licence, why would I risk another 6 by doing 90+ on the motorway. Can you not see the stupidity in that?
Indeed. 20+ mph over the limit and probably a few more indicated on the speedometer. If I had 6 points on my license i'd be setting my cruise control to 70 mph.Devil2575 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I already had 6 points on my licence, why would I risk another 6 by doing 90+ on the motorway. Can you not see the stupidity in that?
Indeed. 20+ mph over the limit and probably a few more indicated on the speedometer. If I had 6 points on my license i'd be setting my cruise control to 70 mph.Some people would get the sack on losing their licence, for others it would be very major hassle. But for people who don't rely on their car to get them to work it really wouldn't matter that much.
Devil2575 said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I already had 6 points on my licence, why would I risk another 6 by doing 90+ on the motorway. Can you not see the stupidity in that?
Indeed. 20+ mph over the limit and probably a few more indicated on the speedometer. If I had 6 points on my license i'd be setting my cruise control to 70 mph.TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I already had 6 points on my licence, why would I risk another 6 by doing 90+ on the motorway. Can you not see the stupidity in that?
Then again, if you are so content obeying the speed limits, why would you have any points on your licence in the first place?snorky782 said:
Pete317 said:
You're twisting things.
Nobody mentioned anything about 'staring at the speedo, or anything like it.
Getting caught for straying over the limit has little or nothing in common with not paying proper attention to road/traffic conditions and real/potential hazards.
Besides, only getting caught a handful of times despite doing 70K a year is arguably doing quite well in this day and age.
Oh, and in case you ask, my licence is clean.
Then don't post the invisible gorilla video. The whole purpose of that is to show how focussing 100% on one thing can result in you missing other things. Nobody mentioned anything about 'staring at the speedo, or anything like it.
Getting caught for straying over the limit has little or nothing in common with not paying proper attention to road/traffic conditions and real/potential hazards.
Besides, only getting caught a handful of times despite doing 70K a year is arguably doing quite well in this day and age.
Oh, and in case you ask, my licence is clean.
Edited by Pete317 on Monday 25th April 20:43
We all speed. Getting caught once, shame on them, twice shame on you, three times double shame on you, four times and you have to start questioning yourself a lot.
Look up "saccadian masking"
Basically, your brain switches your vision off while your eyes are moving from point to point, so as not to experience motion blur, and your brain fills in the gaps.
I was countering the claim made by many that if you miss seeing a change in speed limit then you can't be paying attention. On the contrary, you can be paying 100% attention, but it depends on what you're paying attention to, and how much you move your eyes in the process.
And that's just one of the many reasons you might miss seeing a limit sign, which have nothing to do with not paying attention or doing something else wrong.
Pete317 said:
snorky782 said:
Pete317 said:
You're twisting things.
Nobody mentioned anything about 'staring at the speedo, or anything like it.
Getting caught for straying over the limit has little or nothing in common with not paying proper attention to road/traffic conditions and real/potential hazards.
Besides, only getting caught a handful of times despite doing 70K a year is arguably doing quite well in this day and age.
Oh, and in case you ask, my licence is clean.
Then don't post the invisible gorilla video. The whole purpose of that is to show how focussing 100% on one thing can result in you missing other things. Nobody mentioned anything about 'staring at the speedo, or anything like it.
Getting caught for straying over the limit has little or nothing in common with not paying proper attention to road/traffic conditions and real/potential hazards.
Besides, only getting caught a handful of times despite doing 70K a year is arguably doing quite well in this day and age.
Oh, and in case you ask, my licence is clean.
Edited by Pete317 on Monday 25th April 20:43
We all speed. Getting caught once, shame on them, twice shame on you, three times double shame on you, four times and you have to start questioning yourself a lot.
Look up "saccadian masking"
Basically, your brain switches your vision off while your eyes are moving from point to point, so as not to experience motion blur, and your brain fills in the gaps.
I was countering the claim made by many that if you miss seeing a change in speed limit then you can't be paying attention. On the contrary, you can be paying 100% attention, but it depends on what you're paying attention to, and how much you move your eyes in the process.
And that's just one of the many reasons you might miss seeing a limit sign, which have nothing to do with not paying attention or doing something else wrong.
A speed limit (other than a 30 sign) is not a one off sign. On a managed motorway it is highly publicised, there is als likely to be a significant amount of traffic around to moderate your driving, or at least make you consider your speed.
You position speed limits as if they are hidden secrets only able to be seen by some special people. They are the opposite of that.
Nobody is paying 100% to one specific thing when driving, we are spreading our focus and with experience this is second nature.
cmaguire said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
If I already had 6 points on my licence, why would I risk another 6 by doing 90+ on the motorway. Can you not see the stupidity in that?
Then again, if you are so content obeying the speed limits, why would you have any points on your licence in the first place?I like driving fast. I like having a licence. I can survive without driving fast. I'd struggle to survive without a licence. Loss of job, income, and all that goes with it.
So if there's a remote chance I might lose my licence, I stop driving fast.
This really isn't complicated stuff.
snorky782 said:
And your point remains completely wrong.
A speed limit (other than a 30 sign) is not a one off sign. On a managed motorway it is highly publicised, there is als likely to be a significant amount of traffic around to moderate your driving, or at least make you consider your speed.
You position speed limits as if they are hidden secrets only able to be seen by some special people. They are the opposite of that.
Nobody is paying 100% to one specific thing when driving, we are spreading our focus and with experience this is second nature.
You're the only one who's fixated on this 100% thing.A speed limit (other than a 30 sign) is not a one off sign. On a managed motorway it is highly publicised, there is als likely to be a significant amount of traffic around to moderate your driving, or at least make you consider your speed.
You position speed limits as if they are hidden secrets only able to be seen by some special people. They are the opposite of that.
Nobody is paying 100% to one specific thing when driving, we are spreading our focus and with experience this is second nature.
Try to read what I'm saying, rather than fitting your own interpretation to it.
And please don't lecture me about experience - I've probably had at least as much as you.
Anyway, unless you actually have something constructive to add, rather than dismissive, I think this conversation has run its course.
Pete317 said:
You're the only one who's fixated on this 100% thing.
Try to read what I'm saying, rather than fitting your own interpretation to it.
And please don't lecture me about experience - I've probably had at least as much as you.
Anyway, unless you actually have something constructive to add, rather than dismissive, I think this conversation has run its course.
I'm glad that you've decided to end the conversation, I'm guessing that's because your argument isn't holding up. The gorilla video is explicitly and exclusively about how focussing 100% on one thing means you miss other things. It isn't a difficult concept. No matter how much you argue otherwise, that is the whole purpose of the video. It has zero relevance to driving, other than to possibly highlight how those who stare unblinkingly in front of them are sTry to read what I'm saying, rather than fitting your own interpretation to it.
And please don't lecture me about experience - I've probably had at least as much as you.
Anyway, unless you actually have something constructive to add, rather than dismissive, I think this conversation has run its course.
t drivers. cmaguire said:
Then again, if you are so content obeying the speed limits, why would you have any points on your licence in the first place?
Because you don't agree with the limits in some cases and how they enforce withcamera vans in dodgy places. However your are not a scaly criminal who drives illegally banned etc and likes a good police chase. So you go I have used up two of my 3 life's lets keep it under control not get banned at least till some of these points drop off.Also I have to say I got fed up with when I borrowed cars/ hired cars having to go through endorsements like I was some liability. Yet to have someone say owe you have 6 plus points that's ok we all hate speed cameras you keep waging war on them your principled road warrior you. Here are the keys to our shiny new BMW enjoy.
Edited by surveyor_101 on Tuesday 26th April 21:54
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff