12 Points on the Horizon...

[Soov535]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[Ken Figenus]

Soov. I've long since read that poignant thread.

I've also just read your car list and you mention 'rocket propelled' etc. Your post doesn't really add up, and frankly is rather simplistic and an extreme case response to someone wanting to reasonably nip by a horse box on an A road without being penalised or called impatient!!! Get some perspective please.

[Soov535]

Ken Figenus said:

Soov. I've long since read that poignant thread.

I've also just read your car list and you mention 'rocket propelled' etc. Your post doesn't really add up, and frankly is rather simplistic and an extreme case response to someone wanting to reasonably nip by a horse box on an A road without being penalised or called impatient!!! Get some perspective please.

Fair comment.

I am no saint, but I don't complain when I get caught.

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

What bothers me is not so much people who are doing what you say, but people who only think they are making good progress safely. There's no way for them to tell the difference. I've encountered many people driving in enthusiastic style in enthusiast cars, and driving like complete idiot tt s. I don't for a second doubt that they were convinced of their own driving superiority while doing so.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

Soov535 said:

I am no saint, but I don't complain when I get caught.

Re this thread, this is the key.

It's not the speeding that bothers me, the pathetic whining and bhing that I can't stand. The "scam" claims. the conspiracy nonsense. It's utter crap. I speed. I've been done twice, each time I didn't accidentally creep over the limit. I knew the limit and I made a conscious decision to exceed it. And I got caught. My fault. No conspiracy. No war on the motorist. No scam. How can it be a scam? I decided to break the limit and when caught, I got the exact fine and number of points that they'd told me I'd get if I was ever caught breaking the limit. No add on extra charges, no hidden Ts & Cs. In fact, I wish other organisations were as transparent.

Honestly, this forum is increasingly full of the motoring equivalent of hysterical screaming schoolgirls. fking grow up and accept some personal responsibility for your actions.

[vonhosen]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That fact doesn't make the prevailing system unjust or unreasonable either.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I have a specialist/enthusiast interest, I earn a living from driving too all over the country & abroad. I go on driving/riding holidays many times a year
I don't know specifically what difficulties you are referring to, but if you mean cameras I haven't run into difficulties with them.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The law doesn't account for variable expertise when considering Sec 2/3 RTA, so it's unlikely to with speed either. We can only realistically conclude It's written that way on purpose.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

With so many miles of road & relatively so few cameras or Road's Policing officers it's always likely to be thus.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Unjust or not will largely hinge on the lens you view it through. And we all view through different coloured lenses whether we like to think we do or not.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

It's hardly surprising though if some might not show much empathy or not 'suffer fools gladly' so to speak, as you don't have to be particularly intelligent to work out where you are most at risk of & and at what speed you are likely to start getting points.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Speeding is a technical offence, as are a lot of driving offences.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I don't gloat about it, I don't think much about the individuals at all. But that goes for most traffic offences, not just speeding.

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not making assumptions about the sort of driving I've seen, I'm making factual statements about it.

The point I was hoping you would address is the point about the driver himself not knowing, and having no way of knowing, whether his 'making good progress safely' is doing exactly that, or taking ill-judged risks to the point of endangering other road users.

[berlintaxi]

And once again a thread gets de-railled by Cmoose and his absolute refusal to see other points of view.

[berlintaxi]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Grow up, you have some sad complex where you really think you are cleverer than everyone else, reality is you a sad individual who looks for an argument on every thread you inhabit.

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Let me explain it a different way- although you accept that some people think they are better and safer drivers than they are, you also seem to think that it is ok for people to make progress safely. My point is that they don't know if that's what they are doing, so having speed limits and enforcing them is a good way to ensure that if and when the sort of people I am talking about do have accidents then those accidents will take place at lower velocities.

I apologise for not making myself clearer.

[vonhosen]

Of course I have biases, as I said, we all do including you.

I'm not criticising others for breaking the speed limit. Not criticising people for doing anything. We can all choose what rules to abide by or not.
I just don't empathise with them when they complain about getting caught, because I recognise with only a little care in relation to where & when it's pretty much avoidable.

I'm quite happy that it can be acceptably safe (in my view) to exceed the speed limit & also commit a host of other offences safely too.

I have to accept though that in our democracy that it's not about me & my view of a) what's acceptably safe b) what the law should be.

I get on with my life & am responsible for my choices, whilst leaving others to do the same.

I don't gloat when people get caught offending, you don't see me going ha ha.

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thanks for the clarification. I agree with you.

I do know that some of the anti-OP posts on threads like these are driven by schadenfreude, and sometimes they are made because the OP doesn't seem to be able to grasp who it is that is to blame for their predicament.

[singlecoil]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Or it may be that they believe that their own decisions about speed in a given circumstance are fine, even though they may exceed the limit, but that the law should be obeyed by others because they can't be sure that other people are qualified to make such decisions about their own speed.

[vonhosen]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

[TooMany2cvs]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

How about if somebody's driving is safe - but they aren't insured? Or they don't have a licence?

It's very simple... If somebody's driving is dangerous, then the most appropriate charge for them would be "dangerous driving". If they're driving carelessly, then "careless driving". They're both more serious than "exceeding the speed limit". So, if the most appropriate charge is "exceeding the speed limit", then we can assume their driving is broadly safe. The safety of their driving is not a factor in whether they're being prosecuted or not.

BUT... it's not LEGAL. They are... exceeding the speed limit. Whether you think the speed limit is right or not, there is no doubt whatsoever as to what it is. Nor is there any doubt that you are legally required to stay within it. It's not a very serious offence - and the punishment isn't very severe. What is severe is the aggregation of a sequence of offences in a shortish space of time - because that's probably a fairly good indication of somebody whose driving, on the whole, poses a higher risk to others. Maybe exceeding the speed limit isn't always the most appropriate offence, and more serious ones would be more appropriate. But it IS very easy to detect and very easy to prosecute. And, on the whole, it's probably not a terrible pointer to the general attitude of any random driver.

So - how about those insurance or licence offences? Should they be ignored, too, because "a superior road policing system would not punish safe driving"?

[WinstonWolf]

Vonhosen, Cmoose, TooMany2CVs and Singlecoil?

I'm pulling up a sofa and stocking up on popcorn...

[TooMany2cvs]

WinstonWolf said:

Vonhosen, Cmoose, TooMany2CVs and Singlecoil?

I'm pulling up a sofa and stocking up on popcorn...

<grin>
Pfffft.

[vonhosen]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

i don't see it that way.

I can support the over arching process in the way laws are made etc whilst not agreeing with every individual law.
Respecting the former overrides the latter where you to get conflict with the latter, resulting in you accepting the consequences set out.

[vonhosen]

I'm afraid the law does always apply whether you agree with it or not, it holds no value on the individual's view of it.
My acceptance of our system of law means that I do accept the punishment even where I am happy to break the law because I don't personally agree with it.