12 Points on the Horizon...
Discussion
anonymous said:
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I think when you get cases like the OP where they have already managed to pick up 9 points in 14 months and are now facing another 3 it's rather telling about their attitude to driving in general. Getting caught once or twice in 3 years I'd say yeah that's something you can put down to bad luck but that many times in such a short period of time? The bad luck excuse starts to wear a little thin, especially when a ban would have substantial consequences for them. To me it sounds far more likely that they are either spectacularly unobservant, have poor risk analysis skills or just make repeated crappy decisions which not even their own self-interest can stop. None of those sound like a good thing in a driver to me!I'm no saint behind the wheel, nor am I some sort of driving god - I've been caught speeding twice in my life and both could easily have been avoided had I been paying more attention. Or in other words if I had been doing a better job of driving.
It might not be largest sample size ever as it's only a handful but I can hand on heart say that every single person I've ever met who has earned a totting up ban has been a scarily s
t driver ("enthusiast" or not!), not because of their speeding but usually because of one of the flaws I mentioned above. Strangely enough they always blamed the "scameras", the police, the courts, the laws or frankly anything rather than themselves. I've no idea if it's intentional or not but the totting up system does seem to manage to indirectly catch out st drivers who would otherwise be difficult to prosecute.Now I've never met the OP and maybe he's a really good guy with good skills and has just had an exceptionally unlucky year and a bit, but from what he's said on here I can see why he's getting flak from some corners.
Geekman got it in one within the first ten posts on this thread:
No wonder people have deserted this forum in their droves.
Geekman said:
I'd advise thinking about an exceptional hardship argument (focusing on exceptional hardship to your dependants, not yourself). If you post it up on Fightback Forums you should get some good advice, sadly on here you'll mostly get sanctimonious dheads saying "don't speed" or "take it like a man" or some similar crap.
What then followed was 25 pages of said sanctimonious crap.heads saying "don't speed" or "take it like a man" or some similar crap.No wonder people have deserted this forum in their droves.
anonymous said:
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I think you're mistaking a holier than thou attitude to driving offences with a holier than thou attitude towards a lack of personal responsibility.If someone gets done doing 95 in a 20 limit, then they might get some flak. But when people say they got done doing 40 in a 30 they don't. What they get flak for is when they combine that with all the "scamera/not my fault/war on the motorist/massive conspiracy" bulls
t. I can't be doing with f
king cry babies. anonymous said:
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I'd disagree - for some which are blatantly crap bits of driving (such as Twig's hypothetical "95 in a 20" type scenario) giving flak is desirable. It shows that motoring enthusiasts can actually be a bit self-regulating and without that we're just proving the hysterical pearl-clutchers at BRAKE right. While I think you have a point with regards PH becoming a bit harsher over the last year or so with regards speeding offences in general there's always been an element of calling people out on offences where the speed was inappropriate. It's what separated this place from some of the other car forums I've seen over the years where the mouth-breathers go to seek adulation and sympathy for getting caught doing silly speeds in their town centre. TwigtheWonderkid said:
I'm still not seeing the correlation between enthusiasm and sympathy. I cannot see why an enthusiast should be more sympathetic than a member of the general public. Either might be sympathetic, or not. I don't see it as my place or yours to call for a change in thinking.
Surely someone who has an exaggerated and enthusiastic interest in cars/driving/motoring is able to better differentiate between situations and scenarios? Much like traffic cops used to do - ye olde discretion/common sense thing being applied? That 20mph camera I went past in Bristol today would ping me at 5am the same as it would for the busy 1pm sandwich crowd dash. One is valid the other far less so. I also expect a greedy grabby ticket as I had to do an U turn due to road works plus sat nav comedy and may have clipped 100mm of a bus lane. That will get me going!
I previously mentioned hammering people for 79mph, bang to rights, on a motorway as maybe NOT being the best use of time/humans/technology/resources - especially if its all with a road safety remit that we are meant to buy and swallow.
The M4 by Newport today saw me put the handbrake on - they are rigidly enforcing the variable limits from today on. So it was at a b standstill. Best use of resources for minimising driver frustration and promoting our common good?
These are my little nuggets of administered nonsense that I question (aka 'whinge') and I see many more. I, unlike many, can be @rsed to differentiate and whinge when they treat us like plonkers with our luscious wallets (not that they ever get a penny from me - far too tight let alone observant!).
I just think the more nonsense you passively accept the more medicine you will get - its in many's vested interests. I realise many of you are not at that cheesed off stage at the moment, but can you see a point in time when you will? Are you Romans fiddling as the town starts to smoulder?
Or are you just gafters paying the mortgage from the income such admin and enforcement roles provides and thus have zero motivation to do yourselves out of a job!?And yes all of these gripes are on my to-do list Singlecoil. I will sort them eventually mate; single handledly
Or maybe those who administer do take account of public mood and reactions now and again - after all if they hear no dissenting voices they will only ever hear the cycling lobby and Brake? Do they represent you and your little hobby?anonymous said:
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Oh dear. You really don't get it.When I knowingly break the law by speeding, it's the wrong thing to do. If I get caught, I accept the punishment coming my way without bleating like a 3 year old. That's the right thing to do. So 2 things, I've done something wrong and then accepted my punishment.
That's infinitely preferable to knowing breaking the law, and then having been caught, f
king bhing and whining and bleating on about scams and conspiracies and completely failing to take responsibility for your actions. In fact, the refusal to accept any responsibility is, I think, worse than the initial offence!So when someone is done for speeding, (normal speeding, not 95 in a 20) I don't have a holier than thou attitude as I also speed, and I'm not a hypocrite. When they start on with the conspiracy b
ks, I do have a holier than thou attitude, because I would never do that, and I take a dim view of those that do.I hope that's not too complex for you to grasp.
cmaguire said:
anonymous said:
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It beats me why so many appear to have trouble grasping the point you are trying to make, then argue semantics ad nauseumTwig said his speeding was a wrong, he didn't say it was OK. It's a wrong he is willing to commit to. He further said he doesn't judge others who also commit the same wrong, just how they react to being caught doing that wrong.
We all break laws, we just choose which we are willing to based on a number of criteria.
vonhosen said:
Perhaps they don't have trouble grasping the point, they just don't agree with it.
Twig said his speeding was a wrong, he didn't say it was OK. It's a wrong he is willing to commit to. He further said he doesn't judge others who also commit the same wrong, just how they react to being caught doing that wrong.
We all break laws, we just choose which we are willing to based on a number of criteria.
Twig has also dredged up the predictable conspiracy, bleating, take responsibility nonsense in his repost to Cmoose, none of which has any relevance to their debate as Cmoose has never expressed any of those tendencies that Twig finds so upsetting.Twig said his speeding was a wrong, he didn't say it was OK. It's a wrong he is willing to commit to. He further said he doesn't judge others who also commit the same wrong, just how they react to being caught doing that wrong.
We all break laws, we just choose which we are willing to based on a number of criteria.
cmaguire said:
vonhosen said:
Perhaps they don't have trouble grasping the point, they just don't agree with it.
Twig said his speeding was a wrong, he didn't say it was OK. It's a wrong he is willing to commit to. He further said he doesn't judge others who also commit the same wrong, just how they react to being caught doing that wrong.
We all break laws, we just choose which we are willing to based on a number of criteria.
Twig has also dredged up the predictable conspiracy, bleating, take responsibility nonsense in his repost to Cmoose, none of which has any relevance to their debate as Cmoose has never expressed any of those tendencies that Twig finds so upsetting.Twig said his speeding was a wrong, he didn't say it was OK. It's a wrong he is willing to commit to. He further said he doesn't judge others who also commit the same wrong, just how they react to being caught doing that wrong.
We all break laws, we just choose which we are willing to based on a number of criteria.
vonhosen said:
But they aren't talking about each other, they are talking Twig & others (not specifically cmoose).
It would be a relief if we could all just admit that in the majority of instances speeding is entirely trivial.And then perhaps all agree about the few occasions when it genuinely isn't.
anonymous said:
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He wasn't. The wrong doing is just a statement of fact, in that they broke the law being a wrong doing. He doesn't have a go at them for wrong doing in breaking the law. He further admits he does the same.The difference is in the reaction to getting caught doing the wrong. He doesn't have a go at them for breaking the law, he has a go at them for their reaction to getting caught.
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