Potential issue with car trader/dealer - advice welcomed

Potential issue with car trader/dealer - advice welcomed

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northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Monday 25th April 2016
quotequote all
I bought a car recently (2010 320i E91 with 105k) and have had a couple of issues. A couple of days after getting it, I had an "oil pressure" warning (not oil level) and one of those orange "check engine" lights. When the oil warning came up, I stopped the engine immediately. I checked the oil (idrive - takes about 10 minutes) and it said it was ok so I started the car & got no warning.

I spoke to my neighbour (runs a garage) and he recommended plugging it into an Autologic machine & seeing what it said. It came up with a few faults & that some software needed updating. He also advised a flush and oil change as these engines can throw a wobbly if the wrong oil is used. I had a word with the chap I bought the car from & he agreed to pay £150.

After getting this done, the car seemed a lot better - no EML & no oil pressure warning. Fast forward a couple of weeks, after a run on the motorway, the oil pressure warning came back and I've also noticed a noisy rumble/rattle (not sure which) from the engine.

Internet research tells me it could be anything from a Vanos unit, a big end, pistons, oil pump, cam chain, erectile dysfunction, crowns - none of which sound cheap or easy.

I've spoken to the lad I bought it from today & needless to say he wasn't delighted to hear from me. The car was advertised as having a warranty, but I haven't seen any details of this yet. He's said he was going to have a word with his mechanic & get back to me tomorrow.

The guy I bought it from is what I'd call a home trader. He's a registered Ltd company but doesn't have a showroom. The car was advertised at £7995 and we agreed my old car (WBAC value £3500) plus £3600 cash. He put a new MOT on it, a new pair of front tyres and replaced the rear brake pads.

To be fair, the seller has been pretty good so far, but if he did decide to be not so good, what's my next step?


Blue Oval84

5,276 posts

160 months

Monday 25th April 2016
quotequote all
If he absolutely refuses to play ball, and you think that the car isn't of suitable quality for it's age and price paid then you'll need to take him to court and plead your case to a judge.

However, it sounds as though he's being reasonably good so far, so good luck!

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
He is probably writing the warranty as we speak.

JimmyConwayNW

3,056 posts

124 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
Car sales business here.
We are in process of having this issue with a 2010 320i. Full BMW history, 44k and 1 owner.
Timing chain rattling and increases with revs and the noise has appeared out of no where with absolutely zero warning.

44k miles. I'm replacing chain for our customer but this should just not be happening on a car at this age and mileage.

johnfm

13,668 posts

249 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
JimmyConwayNW said:
Car sales business here.
We are in process of having this issue with a 2010 320i. Full BMW history, 44k and 1 owner.
Timing chain rattling and increases with revs and the noise has appeared out of no where with absolutely zero warning.

44k miles. I'm replacing chain for our customer but this should just not be happening on a car at this age and mileage.
320i timing chain issues are well known. The timing chains were made of chocolate or something possibly softer and less resilient.

We had ours replaced by a good indie for £600-ish.

bomma220

14,452 posts

124 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
JimmyConwayNW said:

a 2010 320i. Full BMW history, 44k and 1 owner.
.

.
And you believed it when you bought it? hehe

northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
bomma220 said:
JimmyConwayNW said:

a 2010 320i. Full BMW history, 44k and 1 owner.
.

.
And you believed it when you bought it? hehe
To be fair, I spoke to a BMW specialist today & he's working on one with exactly the same symptoms as mine with 35k on.

northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
Monkeylegend said:
He is probably writing the warranty as we speak.
What do you mean mate?

Update...

I phoned the dealer this morning & he sent me a text saying he'd spoken to the warranty company & they've said that as I've had a mate look at it the warranty is invalid. I phoned the dealer & told him that it wasn't a "mate" that looked at the car, it was a neighbour that owns a Bosch Service Centre so he's basically talking bks as I don't believe he's even sorted the warranty. He then replied about 20 minutes later saying he'd ring me this afternoon.

Before he phoned, I spoke to a BMW specialist and described the symptoms & basically (obviously without him looking at it) it sounds like it could be something major - oil pump, crank or pistons (or something like that) - and could cost anywhere from £1500 to £2500ish for a rebuild (depending on what it needed - £1500 if all 3 things were ok, up to £2500ish if it needed everything replacing).

I then spoke to the dealer & told him I was taking it to a specialist on Friday for him to look at & he's asked me to call him once I know what the score is.

Basically, the fault that is present now is the one it had pretty much immediately after buying the car. I picked up the car on the 19th March & spoke to him on the 25th March after I'd had the "pressure" warning a couple of times. I described the fault (on text which I have a copy of) about it getting very noisy when warm & the pressure warning coming on on the motorway.

So where do I go from here?

I'd rather keep the car (other than the duffer engine I like it) but only if it's fixed. Realistically though, I can't see the dealer coughing up £2.5k on a sub £8k car and I also can't see a warranty company jumping up & down for joy. There's also not a bat in hells chance I'm lumping for it after 5 weeks and 500 miles (give or take) of driving.

Monkeylegend

26,226 posts

230 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
northwest monkey said:
Monkeylegend said:
He is probably writing the warranty as we speak.
What do you mean mate?
You said you hadn't seen the warranty, and he is already saying it is invalid. He will probably dig out a copy of a very basic warranty that covers the best part of bugger all.

It would have been better to have seen or had a copy of the warranty when you got the car so you knew at that stage what was covered.

Blue Oval84

5,276 posts

160 months

Tuesday 26th April 2016
quotequote all
northwest monkey said:
So where do I go from here?
You try and persuade him very nicely to pull £2,500 of his own money out of his pocket to fix it. If he won't then try and persuade him to buy it back.

If neither of the above work then send the letter before action, outlining that a court summons will be forthcoming unless he sorts it.

If that doesn't work then pay your fee, lodge a claim and sue him, hope that the judge sides with you (he probably will). Then wait for him to pay up.

If he can't or won't pay up, then engage the services of a bailiff (at your cost) to try and get the money.

When he claims to have no money, and refuses to let them into his house, spend ages trying to gather your own evidence with internet searches etc. to prove he's still trading.

Then get a letter from the bailiffs thanking you for your custom but there is little likelihood of recovering your money.

Write off the debt, court fees and bailiff fees.

Ask me how I know that this is the pattern these things can take...

I sincerely hope that your case is resolved amicably at the first line, or maybe the letter before action. My case wasn't (although mine wasn't for a car, it was still a lot of money to me at the time)

It's why I do cringe a bit when I see SOGA or whatever paraded about on the forum as though it's as good as a warranty, it's only as much use as the guys ability or willingness to pay.

4rephill

5,040 posts

177 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
At which point did you give the supplying dealer a chance to get the car fixed himself?

So far it appears that you've taken the car to other people and have asked the dealer to believe what you're telling him and asking him to hand over money for repairs.

I'm not implying that you're lying about the situation, I'm just querying as to whether you've followed the correct procedure required in order to be able to take the sort of action that others are suggesting.

Whilst you have certain rights when it comes to buying a car (especially from a dealer - With business premises or not), there are also certain procedures that should be followed if the car develops a fault.

Not giving the dealer an opportunity to get the car fixed himself/themselves could be a costly error!

Muzzer79

9,806 posts

186 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
northwest monkey said:
So where do I go from here?
Over 7 years on these pages and you've not seen one of these Just-bought-a-car-and-now-it's-fecked-what-do-I-do? threads? smile

Your whole situation is a bit theoretical at the moment.

The fault might be this or it might be that
The dealer might pay to repair or he might not
It might be covered with the warranty or it might not.

Step 1 - Establish exactly what's wrong with the car. Give the dealer the opportunity to do this through his garage or mechanic if he wants to.
Step 2 - Establish how much it's going to cost to rectify
Step 3 - Establish if the supplying dealer or the warranty will pay for it

Step 4 - If the answer to Step 3 is neither, renew this thread asking for advice; armed with all the facts of your situation. You will then get direct answers rather than what-if answers.



Vaud

50,289 posts

154 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
4rephill said:
At which point did you give the supplying dealer a chance to get the car fixed himself?

So far it appears that you've taken the car to other people and have asked the dealer to believe what you're telling him and asking him to hand over money for repairs.

I'm not implying that you're lying about the situation, I'm just querying as to whether you've followed the correct procedure required in order to be able to take the sort of action that others are suggesting.

Whilst you have certain rights when it comes to buying a car (especially from a dealer - With business premises or not), there are also certain procedures that should be followed if the car develops a fault.

Not giving the dealer an opportunity to get the car fixed himself/themselves could be a costly error!
This is wise.

Old Merc

3,486 posts

166 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
The dealer says the warranty is invalid because a third party has been working on it.I think this will be your problem.
You should have taken the car back immediately to be fixed by the dealer under the terms of the warranty.
Your neighbour could be the best master technician in the UK but the dealer and the warranty co could get funny and argue he caused the fault.
I used to be in the car repair business and found most of the "Warranty Company`s" could wriggle out if the T was not crossed or i not dotted,anything to avoid paying up the full amount.
I think you must go for the dealer personally,he has sold you a duffer that you can't use.
Just a thought? have you researched this bloke? is he trading legally? is he allowed to trade from home,VAT,HMRC and all that.

Denis O

2,141 posts

242 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Blue Oval84 said:
northwest monkey said:
So where do I go from here?
You try and persuade him very nicely to pull £2,500 of his own money out of his pocket to fix it. If he won't then try and persuade him to buy it back.

If neither of the above work then send the letter before action, outlining that a court summons will be forthcoming unless he sorts it.

If that doesn't work then pay your fee, lodge a claim and sue him, hope that the judge sides with you (he probably will). Then wait for him to pay up.

If he can't or won't pay up, then engage the services of a bailiff (at your cost) to try and get the money.

When he claims to have no money, and refuses to let them into his house, spend ages trying to gather your own evidence with internet searches etc. to prove he's still trading.

Then get a letter from the bailiffs thanking you for your custom but there is little likelihood of recovering your money.

Write off the debt, court fees and bailiff fees.

Ask me how I know that this is the pattern these things can take...

I sincerely hope that your case is resolved amicably at the first line, or maybe the letter before action. My case wasn't (although mine wasn't for a car, it was still a lot of money to me at the time)

It's why I do cringe a bit when I see SOGA or whatever paraded about on the forum as though it's as good as a warranty, it's only as much use as the guys ability or willingness to pay.
Pretty much what happened to me although the dealer who screwed me, closed his premises and disappeared off the face of the earth.

I trust karma caught up with him at some point after and he got fked and much as he fked me.

Black_S3

2,667 posts

187 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
I don't know if I'm alone, but at 105k miles and 25% of original purchase price I think an element of maintenance above regular servicing should be expected.

Hate to say it, but maybe the wiser option for the OP would have been a new Citroen C1 for the same money?

Edited by Black_S3 on Wednesday 27th April 17:27

R8Steve

4,150 posts

174 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
I thought third party warranties usually only kicked in 30 days after purchase or something like that?

Probably introduced to avoid car dealerships punting out cars with problems then getting the warranty company to foot the bill.

northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
4rephill said:
At which point did you give the supplying dealer a chance to get the car fixed himself?
The first time I spoke to him about it. He's about 50 miles from me so he suggested I took it to a local garage to get them to look at it & plug it into a diagnostic machine.

4rephill said:
So far it appears that you've taken the car to other people and have asked the dealer to believe what you're telling him and asking him to hand over money for repairs.

I'm not implying that you're lying about the situation, I'm just querying as to whether you've followed the correct procedure required in order to be able to take the sort of action that others are suggesting.

Whilst you have certain rights when it comes to buying a car (especially from a dealer - With business premises or not), there are also certain procedures that should be followed if the car develops a fault.

Not giving the dealer an opportunity to get the car fixed himself/themselves could be a costly error!
When I spoke to him this week, he said he was going to speak to the garage he uses. I suggested that he got the garage to give me a call so I could describe what was happening. If the garage had asked me to bring it in I would have done. It was his idea I take it to a specialist.

northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Muzzer79 said:
northwest monkey said:
So where do I go from here?
Over 7 years on these pages and you've not seen one of these Just-bought-a-car-and-now-it's-fecked-what-do-I-do? threads? smile
I'm sure there have been loads, however as (a) I've never bought a fked car and (b) I'd have no advice to give being naïve about the situation, I've ignored the threads.

Muzzer79 said:
Your whole situation is a bit theoretical at the moment.


Agreed. Hence the "potential" in the thread title.

Muzzer79 said:
The fault might be this or it might be that
The dealer might pay to repair or he might not
It might be covered with the warranty or it might not.

Step 1 - Establish exactly what's wrong with the car. Give the dealer the opportunity to do this through his garage or mechanic if he wants to.
Step 2 - Establish how much it's going to cost to rectify
Step 3 - Establish if the supplying dealer or the warranty will pay for it

Step 4 - If the answer to Step 3 is neither, renew this thread asking for advice; armed with all the facts of your situation. You will then get direct answers rather than what-if answers.
Will do - thanks.

northwest monkey

Original Poster:

6,370 posts

188 months

Wednesday 27th April 2016
quotequote all
Old Merc said:
The dealer says the warranty is invalid because a third party has been working on it.I think this will be your problem.
You should have taken the car back immediately to be fixed by the dealer under the terms of the warranty.
Your neighbour could be the best master technician in the UK but the dealer and the warranty co could get funny and argue he caused the fault.
I used to be in the car repair business and found most of the "Warranty Company`s" could wriggle out if the T was not crossed or i not dotted,anything to avoid paying up the full amount.
I think you must go for the dealer personally,he has sold you a duffer that you can't use.
Just a thought? have you researched this bloke? is he trading legally? is he allowed to trade from home,VAT,HMRC and all that.
I'm pretty sure the dealer hasn't even bought a warranty. Whenever I've had a warranty on a used car before, I've had all sorts of bumf in the post about renewing it.

Let's clear up the neighbour thing. My neighbour happens to run a garage - I took it there on the advice of the dealer I bought it from. It wasn't done as a freebie.