Potential issue with car trader/dealer - advice welcomed
Discussion
If you go legal,and he is limited, bare in mind he might disolve the limited company and then you are f
ked, you wont ever get paid.He should be sorting it out to be fair, problem with traders working from home is they are working for next to nothing usually, so when it goes tits up they are loathed to pay.
Cross your fingers he comes up trumps for you.
BMW have really dropped the ball in the past 5-7 years with some of these engines, 4 cylinder petrol and diesels having big problems (previously Id have said these are bullet proof to huge mileages but seemingly not any more)
On these N43 petrol and N47 diesel engines there are known problems at higher mileage that include worn bottom end/scored crank/low compression/rattling engines.
I can recommend someone good/cost effective to rebuild it the last one I had done cost me £1600 (2010 318i).
These engines are not available easily 2nd hand, the companies advertising on ebay for supply and fit N47 engines will typically rebuild your own motor (only if they can re-use the crank and get hold of conrods etc if not you are in trouble).
To progress this the car needs to go back to the trader and he has to get a proper diagnosis (suggest a compression test, a Borescope check). If he knows its got problems don't expect too much help.
I would be aiming to get your money back and buy something else.
Shame on BMW for building crap engines when they have been famous for such good engineering for all these years.
On these N43 petrol and N47 diesel engines there are known problems at higher mileage that include worn bottom end/scored crank/low compression/rattling engines.
I can recommend someone good/cost effective to rebuild it the last one I had done cost me £1600 (2010 318i).
These engines are not available easily 2nd hand, the companies advertising on ebay for supply and fit N47 engines will typically rebuild your own motor (only if they can re-use the crank and get hold of conrods etc if not you are in trouble).
To progress this the car needs to go back to the trader and he has to get a proper diagnosis (suggest a compression test, a Borescope check). If he knows its got problems don't expect too much help.
I would be aiming to get your money back and buy something else.
Shame on BMW for building crap engines when they have been famous for such good engineering for all these years.
Edited by rallycross on Friday 29th April 13:47
Black_S3 said:
I don't know if I'm alone, but at 105k miles and 25% of original purchase price I think an element of maintenance above regular servicing should be expected.
Hate to say it, but maybe the wiser option for the OP would have been a new Citroen C1 for the same money?
fHate to say it, but maybe the wiser option for the OP would have been a new Citroen C1 for the same money?
Edited by Black_S3 on Wednesday 27th April 17:27
k me, a real life internet retard. I thought such things were a myth.I'm not complaining about a cup holder not working or the brakes being squeaky, I'm talking about potentially a fairly major component (that being the engine) requiring rebuilding. Personally, I would class that as slightly more than an "element of maintenance above regular servicing".
Maybe the wiser option for option for you would be to get an early night. You've got school in the morning.
POORCARDEALER said:
If you go legal,and he is limited, bare in mind he might disolve the limited company and then you are fked, you wont ever get paid.
He should be sorting it out to be fair, problem with traders working from home is they are working for next to nothing usually, so when it goes tits up they are loathed to pay.
Cross your fingers he comes up trumps for you.
My concern as well & thanksked, you wont ever get paid.He should be sorting it out to be fair, problem with traders working from home is they are working for next to nothing usually, so when it goes tits up they are loathed to pay.
Cross your fingers he comes up trumps for you.
rallycross said:
BMW have really dropped the ball in the past 5-7 years with some of these engines, 4 cylinder petrol and diesels having big problems (previously Id have said these are bullet proof to huge mileages but seemingly not any more)
On these N47 engines there are known problems at higher mileage that include worn bottom end/scored crank/low compression/rattling engines.
I can recommend someone good/cost effective to rebuild it the last one I had done cost me £1600 (2010 318i).
These engines are not available easily 2nd hand, the companies advertising on ebay for supply and fit N47 engines will typically rebuild your own motor (only if they can re-use the crank and get hold of conrods etc if not you are in trouble).
To progress this the car needs to go back to the trader and he has to get a proper diagnosis (suggest a compression test, a Borescope check). If he knows its got problems don't expect too much help.
I would be aiming to get your money back and buy something else.
Shame on BMW for building crap engines when they have been famous for such good engineering for all these years.
I think mine is the N43 (petrol) engine, the N47 (I think) is the diesel one. If you could recommend someone that would be much appreciated - from what I've read, the 318i and the 320i are both the same 2 litre engine in (presumably) a different level of tune.On these N47 engines there are known problems at higher mileage that include worn bottom end/scored crank/low compression/rattling engines.
I can recommend someone good/cost effective to rebuild it the last one I had done cost me £1600 (2010 318i).
These engines are not available easily 2nd hand, the companies advertising on ebay for supply and fit N47 engines will typically rebuild your own motor (only if they can re-use the crank and get hold of conrods etc if not you are in trouble).
To progress this the car needs to go back to the trader and he has to get a proper diagnosis (suggest a compression test, a Borescope check). If he knows its got problems don't expect too much help.
I would be aiming to get your money back and buy something else.
Shame on BMW for building crap engines when they have been famous for such good engineering for all these years.
I've had a few BMWs in the past - E30 (318is), E36 (325tds Touring) and an E46 (330i Convertible). The engines have always been the strongest point in the cars (in fact I sold the E36 with 144k on back in 2004 and it's still going 12 years later!).
northwest monkey said:
fk me, a real life internet retard. I thought such things were a myth.
I'm not complaining about a cup holder not working or the brakes being squeaky, I'm talking about potentially a fairly major component (that being the engine) requiring rebuilding. Personally, I would class that as slightly more than an "element of maintenance above regular servicing".
Maybe the wiser option for option for you would be to get an early night. You've got school in the morning.
Might not be what you want to hear, but it's worth balancing out the ideas of chasing the guy through SOGA...HMRC etc.k me, a real life internet retard. I thought such things were a myth.I'm not complaining about a cup holder not working or the brakes being squeaky, I'm talking about potentially a fairly major component (that being the engine) requiring rebuilding. Personally, I would class that as slightly more than an "element of maintenance above regular servicing".
Maybe the wiser option for option for you would be to get an early night. You've got school in the morning.
You haven't nailed down what the problem is yet so not worth the time spent thinking about how to cause max damage to the guy who sold you the car is all I was trying to point out - especially when you haven't given him the chance to fix the issue.
There's loads of possible issues causing a low oil pressure light:
It could be something as simple as a sludged oil pick up pipe - Given the dealers already paid 150 for an oil change, he will probably sort this if you give him the chance.
It could be the tensioner issue... Cost to fix around £600 - warranty excess could be up to £1000, wear and tear part anyway....
It could be f
ked etc...Anyway best of luck.
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The above may help...my experience that was similar to the OP. Good luck!
The above may help...my experience that was similar to the OP. Good luck!
As I said above the dealer needs to get it properly investigated compression check and borescope inspection.
We just had one of these N43 2.0 petrol engines rebuilt I will send you the company details who did it for us. These are really expensive to rebuild thanks to BMW parts prices.
We just had one of these N43 2.0 petrol engines rebuilt I will send you the company details who did it for us. These are really expensive to rebuild thanks to BMW parts prices.
northwest monkey said:
4rephill said:
At which point did you give the supplying dealer a chance to get the car fixed himself?
The first time I spoke to him about it. He's about 50 miles from me so he suggested I took it to a local garage to get them to look at it & plug it into a diagnostic machine.4rephill said:
So far it appears that you've taken the car to other people and have asked the dealer to believe what you're telling him and asking him to hand over money for repairs.
I'm not implying that you're lying about the situation, I'm just querying as to whether you've followed the correct procedure required in order to be able to take the sort of action that others are suggesting.
Whilst you have certain rights when it comes to buying a car (especially from a dealer - With business premises or not), there are also certain procedures that should be followed if the car develops a fault.
Not giving the dealer an opportunity to get the car fixed himself/themselves could be a costly error!
When I spoke to him this week, he said he was going to speak to the garage he uses. I suggested that he got the garage to give me a call so I could describe what was happening. If the garage had asked me to bring it in I would have done. It was his idea I take it to a specialist.I'm not implying that you're lying about the situation, I'm just querying as to whether you've followed the correct procedure required in order to be able to take the sort of action that others are suggesting.
Whilst you have certain rights when it comes to buying a car (especially from a dealer - With business premises or not), there are also certain procedures that should be followed if the car develops a fault.
Not giving the dealer an opportunity to get the car fixed himself/themselves could be a costly error!
Saying that though, do you have any actual physical proof (emails for example), to back that all up if it should go to court?
If it was all based on phone calls only and you don't have any physical evidence to support what he's told you, don't be surprised if the dealer starts claiming that you never gave him the opportunity to fix the car to try to wriggle out of his responsibilities for repairs!
It's quite feasible that the dealer has set up a situation with you that actually could weaken your position when it comes to your rights (That's not to say that is what has happened here, and it's not to say that you wouldn't be believed in a court of Law, but without actual physical evidence, it becomes your word against his as to what actually happened).
I hope you get it sorted OP, the best of luck
I may be wrong but it seems some posts are assuming the "dealer" needs to take out some sort of warranty on the car (warranty direct etc)
this isn't the case, the dealer can opt to take the risk & honor his own warranty on the car (or not) which I suspect has happened here
I may be wrong but it seems some posts are assuming the "dealer" needs to take out some sort of warranty on the car (warranty direct etc)
this isn't the case, the dealer can opt to take the risk & honor his own warranty on the car (or not) which I suspect has happened here
Black_S3 said:
northwest monkey said:
fk me, a real life internet retard. I thought such things were a myth.
I'm not complaining about a cup holder not working or the brakes being squeaky, I'm talking about potentially a fairly major component (that being the engine) requiring rebuilding. Personally, I would class that as slightly more than an "element of maintenance above regular servicing".
Maybe the wiser option for option for you would be to get an early night. You've got school in the morning.
Might not be what you want to hear, but it's worth balancing out the ideas of chasing the guy through SOGA...HMRC etc.k me, a real life internet retard. I thought such things were a myth.I'm not complaining about a cup holder not working or the brakes being squeaky, I'm talking about potentially a fairly major component (that being the engine) requiring rebuilding. Personally, I would class that as slightly more than an "element of maintenance above regular servicing".
Maybe the wiser option for option for you would be to get an early night. You've got school in the morning.
You haven't nailed down what the problem is yet so not worth the time spent thinking about how to cause max damage to the guy who sold you the car is all I was trying to point out - especially when you haven't given him the chance to fix the issue.
There's loads of possible issues causing a low oil pressure light:
It could be something as simple as a sludged oil pick up pipe - Given the dealers already paid 150 for an oil change, he will probably sort this if you give him the chance.
It could be the tensioner issue... Cost to fix around £600 - warranty excess could be up to £1000, wear and tear part anyway....
It could be f
ked etc...Anyway best of luck.
Interesting you mention the timing chain. Could that be a cause of low pressure and/or knocking?
4rephill said:
Fair enough - it wasn't obvious from your original post.
Saying that though, do you have any actual physical proof (emails for example), to back that all up if it should go to court?
If it was all based on phone calls only and you don't have any physical evidence to support what he's told you, don't be surprised if the dealer starts claiming that you never gave him the opportunity to fix the car to try to wriggle out of his responsibilities for repairs!
It's quite feasible that the dealer has set up a situation with you that actually could weaken your position when it comes to your rights (That's not to say that is what has happened here, and it's not to say that you wouldn't be believed in a court of Law, but without actual physical evidence, it becomes your word against his as to what actually happened).
I've got the text message I sent him where I described exactly what was happening, after that we spoke on the phone. I've got a text from him asking for my bank details & asking if I can get a receipt for the work I had done.Saying that though, do you have any actual physical proof (emails for example), to back that all up if it should go to court?
If it was all based on phone calls only and you don't have any physical evidence to support what he's told you, don't be surprised if the dealer starts claiming that you never gave him the opportunity to fix the car to try to wriggle out of his responsibilities for repairs!
It's quite feasible that the dealer has set up a situation with you that actually could weaken your position when it comes to your rights (That's not to say that is what has happened here, and it's not to say that you wouldn't be believed in a court of Law, but without actual physical evidence, it becomes your word against his as to what actually happened).
northwest monkey said:
Don't get me wrong, I'd much rather get the car sorted & be on my way rather than get all "internet hardman" or "legal on his ass". Having not been in this position before, I am basically getting my house in order & finding out what to do should things go pear-shaped.
Interesting you mention the timing chain. Could that be a cause of low pressure and/or knocking?
There's quite a few things that could cause similar symptoms. Its best not to guess and to get the car back to the dealer to let his mechanic sort it. Always start simple and cheap working your way up when fault finding this type of thing.... If you use your mechanic the dealer can turn round and refuse to pay for anything except the fix that solved the problem.Interesting you mention the timing chain. Could that be a cause of low pressure and/or knocking?
The dealer wont want this situation anymore than you do. Maybe when you see him face to face test the water on returning the car/reversing the deal? He might be happier to just throw the car into an auction than the potential grief.
If you do end up lumbered with a big problem jump over to the bmw forums and I'm sure someone locally will assist for beer money.
Edited by Black_S3 on Thursday 28th April 22:50
jac-in-a-box said:
http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...
The above may help...my experience that was similar to the OP. Good luck!
Just read your thread & glad to hear you got a result - great news!The above may help...my experience that was similar to the OP. Good luck!
andymc said:
so the car was up at £7999 and you paid £7100 theoretically? could you not use the thousand pounds you chipped to get the job done? im playing devils advocate
I thought it was £7999 - it was actually up for £7750. He offered £3800 for my old car & we agreed £3600 cash & he'd get the MOT done, rear brake pads & 2 front tyres. In theory you're probably right, that doesn't excuse people from their liabilities though.Ok, an update...
I went to an engine place today (specialising in BMW & Audi) and they've said it basically sounds like it's the bottom end. Not the worst they've heard (happens at 2500rpm and above basically - motorway speeds), but all the same it needs a rebuild costing from £1500 to £2500 depending on what was needed (crank, oil pump or something else). He wasn't touting for business, in fact his advice was the engines are problematic so return the car.
And therein lies the problem...
I've spoken to the dealer, told him what the specialist said & offered him his details so he can speak to him. He then said he'd call me back. 5 minutes later I get a text saying he's spoken to the warranty company, and they won't pay as I've had someone look at the car and it's no longer his problem. He wont give me the warranty company details (I don't believe for a moment he's even bought a warranty) and is now basically ignoring me.
For clarity, I took it to a local garage on his recommendation. The local garage did the diagnostic scan & then recommended the simplest and cheapest option which was to clear the codes & change the oil/filter. This was recommended as if the incorrect grade of oil had been used previously then that could throw up a pressure warning. I spoke to the dealer, told him what the garage said & he agreed to go ahead & he'd pay the £150. As it turns out, this obviously didn't work. There has been a bit of confusion on here about me taking it to a mate. I didn't - a neighbour owns a garage and I took it there.
He's trading as a Ltd Company but it's his partner (not married) who is down as the director of the company.
So now what?
I went to an engine place today (specialising in BMW & Audi) and they've said it basically sounds like it's the bottom end. Not the worst they've heard (happens at 2500rpm and above basically - motorway speeds), but all the same it needs a rebuild costing from £1500 to £2500 depending on what was needed (crank, oil pump or something else). He wasn't touting for business, in fact his advice was the engines are problematic so return the car.
And therein lies the problem...
I've spoken to the dealer, told him what the specialist said & offered him his details so he can speak to him. He then said he'd call me back. 5 minutes later I get a text saying he's spoken to the warranty company, and they won't pay as I've had someone look at the car and it's no longer his problem. He wont give me the warranty company details (I don't believe for a moment he's even bought a warranty) and is now basically ignoring me.
For clarity, I took it to a local garage on his recommendation. The local garage did the diagnostic scan & then recommended the simplest and cheapest option which was to clear the codes & change the oil/filter. This was recommended as if the incorrect grade of oil had been used previously then that could throw up a pressure warning. I spoke to the dealer, told him what the garage said & he agreed to go ahead & he'd pay the £150. As it turns out, this obviously didn't work. There has been a bit of confusion on here about me taking it to a mate. I didn't - a neighbour owns a garage and I took it there.
He's trading as a Ltd Company but it's his partner (not married) who is down as the director of the company.
So now what?
Have you actually seen a copy of the warranty he says the car has. You might need it if something else goes wrong. If you go the legal route and he has mis-sold you the car on the basis of a non-existent warranty it might help you.
Mind you as PCD said, he will probably just go bust and start again if he has to pay up.
Mind you as PCD said, he will probably just go bust and start again if he has to pay up.
Monkeylegend said:
Have you actually seen a copy of the warranty he says the car has. You might need it if something else goes wrong. If you go the legal route and he has mis-sold you the car on the basis of a non-existent warranty it might help you.
No, I haven't seen it - he was supposed to be getting the warranty registered & I'd get something in the post but I've had nothing. The car was advertised (and I've got a copy of the Autotrader advert) as having 12 months warranty.Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff