Request for advice please: bodywork/paint damaged by garage
Discussion
Hello,
I've been visiting PH since 2013 and the advice on these pages was very helpful for me when I bought my 2004 Aston Martin DB9 (which is great).
I've had a situation recently where a garage damaged the paintwork on the car and I'd be very grateful if anyone on this forum with some experience might be able to advise me on my best course of action.
Exactly 2 months ago, in February 2016, I took the car to a new garage for its service. On the driver side wing, just above the headlight, a thumb sized paint bubble has been present ever since I bought the car.
I picked up the car from the garage and drove it the short distance home. When I got out, I noticed that the rubber bonnet seal had erupted (because of not being closed properly) and that caused me to notice that the paint bubble had been cracked. I then discovered the garage hadn't put the service stamp in my logbook too.
I took the car back a couple of days later. They fixed the bonnet seal and stamped the book but refused to take responsibility for the paint bubble.
I asked to speak to the owner/manager. After a month's emailing and not receiving replies, I did receive a reply from the owner who asked me to explain the problem. I replied, with a photo. I have now not had a response despite sending two further emails asking for a reply.
Obviously it's upsetting when any damage happens to your car, but this is made more frustrating because the garage won't communicate with me. I fear the cost of getting this repaired will be very expensive because maybe the whole wing needs to be done.
A friend of mine suggested contacting Aston Martin directly for their advice.
I'd be grateful if anybody on this forum has any advice that might help me. Thanks for reading my post.
I've been visiting PH since 2013 and the advice on these pages was very helpful for me when I bought my 2004 Aston Martin DB9 (which is great).
I've had a situation recently where a garage damaged the paintwork on the car and I'd be very grateful if anyone on this forum with some experience might be able to advise me on my best course of action.
Exactly 2 months ago, in February 2016, I took the car to a new garage for its service. On the driver side wing, just above the headlight, a thumb sized paint bubble has been present ever since I bought the car.
I picked up the car from the garage and drove it the short distance home. When I got out, I noticed that the rubber bonnet seal had erupted (because of not being closed properly) and that caused me to notice that the paint bubble had been cracked. I then discovered the garage hadn't put the service stamp in my logbook too.
I took the car back a couple of days later. They fixed the bonnet seal and stamped the book but refused to take responsibility for the paint bubble.
I asked to speak to the owner/manager. After a month's emailing and not receiving replies, I did receive a reply from the owner who asked me to explain the problem. I replied, with a photo. I have now not had a response despite sending two further emails asking for a reply.
Obviously it's upsetting when any damage happens to your car, but this is made more frustrating because the garage won't communicate with me. I fear the cost of getting this repaired will be very expensive because maybe the whole wing needs to be done.
A friend of mine suggested contacting Aston Martin directly for their advice.
I'd be grateful if anybody on this forum has any advice that might help me. Thanks for reading my post.
Edited by Londb9 on Thursday 28th April 13:59
As above really - the paint work wasn't perfect and the bubble had to burst at some point.
How can you prove that it didn't burst on the way there or on the way home (or over-night if it was left in the workshop) and that they caused the bubble to crack?
And if you could point the finger of blame at them, what exactly do you want them to do about it?
They're very unlikely to offer to make the paint work perfect when it wasn't perfect in the first place.
And I very much doubt that they'll find another bubble of exactly the same size and correct colour in their bag of unburst bubbles to replace it with.
How can you prove that it didn't burst on the way there or on the way home (or over-night if it was left in the workshop) and that they caused the bubble to crack?
And if you could point the finger of blame at them, what exactly do you want them to do about it?
They're very unlikely to offer to make the paint work perfect when it wasn't perfect in the first place.
And I very much doubt that they'll find another bubble of exactly the same size and correct colour in their bag of unburst bubbles to replace it with.
Londb9 said:
On the driver side wing, just above the headlight, a thumb sized paint bubble has been present ever since I bought the car.
Riiight. And you think the garage are somehow to blame for "bursting" it?Would you like them to somehow re-seal this blister? Because to get rid of it completely, back to unblistered paint, would be betterment, wouldn't it?
You can't honestly expect them to pay to have your wing resprayed when it was quite clearly already broken can you? They would have probably needed to lean across the wing to access the engine bay (they normally lay a mat across it when doing this) and it would be nearly impossible to do this without "bursting your bubble" (boom boom, I'm here all week)
Did you point out this obviously knackered piece of paintwork and ask them to avoid touching it?
This is a joke right?
Did you point out this obviously knackered piece of paintwork and ask them to avoid touching it?
This is a joke right?
TooMany2cvs said:
Riiight. And you think the garage are somehow to blame for "bursting" it?
Would you like them to somehow re-seal this blister? Because to get rid of it completely, back to unblistered paint, would be betterment, wouldn't it?
or another view: If there's delicate areas on something like a db9, id expect proper care was taken to avoid making it worse... What would you think about during the complimentary clean, someone holding a pressure washer mm's from a rust blister until the paint shifted? Fairness would say to me the owner and the garage both contributed towards the repair. I don't think asking for advice on what to do next is unreasonable....Would you like them to somehow re-seal this blister? Because to get rid of it completely, back to unblistered paint, would be betterment, wouldn't it?
Black_S3 said:
TooMany2cvs said:
Riiight. And you think the garage are somehow to blame for "bursting" it?
Would you like them to somehow re-seal this blister? Because to get rid of it completely, back to unblistered paint, would be betterment, wouldn't it?
or another view: If there's delicate areas on something like a db9, id expect proper care was taken to avoid making it worse... What would you think about during the complimentary clean, someone holding a pressure washer mm's from a rust blister until the paint shifted? Fairness would say to me the owner and the garage both contributed towards the repair. I don't think asking for advice on what to do next is unreasonable....Would you like them to somehow re-seal this blister? Because to get rid of it completely, back to unblistered paint, would be betterment, wouldn't it?
And from the point of view of the garage they might reasonably expect the owner to point out any known areas of vulnerability to lessen any further damage.
Damaging - by way of inflicting new scratches, dents etc. to existing sound paintwork/bodywork is one thing.
To unwillingly worsen a previously unknown area of dubious reliability (that was known about by the owner!) is something completely different.
If you took your car in for a service in the middle of winter - and known to you your car had a chipped windscreen, they washed the car and the freezing conditions caused their water to freeze in the chip and further crack your windscreen - would you really expect them to stump up for a new screen?
Edited by Squiggs on Thursday 28th April 22:15
Edited by Squiggs on Thursday 28th April 22:18
Squiggs said:
If you took your car in for a service in the middle of winter - and known to you your car had a chipped windscreen, they washed the car and the freezing conditions caused their water to freeze in the chip and further crack your windscreen - would you really expect them to stump up for a new screen?
Maybe-maybe not, but if that happened and I asked for advice on a car forum I'd hope to be told my insurance probably had a small glass excess... or a helpful reply to a reasonable question.Edited by Squiggs on Thursday 28th April 22:15
Edited by Squiggs on Thursday 28th April 22:18
Black_S3 said:
Maybe-maybe not, but if that happened and I asked for advice on a car forum I'd hope to be told my insurance probably had a small glass excess... or a helpful reply to a reasonable question.
Replies can't always go the helpful way - the way that most people seem to want things to go when they consider themselves blameless - looking for somebody else to blame - to try and get something for nothing when another party can't reasonably be held to accountable.Some replies have to have an air of sensibility.
In this instance sensibility dictates that the garage can't be held responsible for damaging such an extremely vulnerable defect whereby merely touching it could have damaged it further.
Without the OP noticing the bubble could have split on the his driveway before he went to the garage, or at the garage - had a sparrow landed on it!
There is no helpful advice to give - apart from advising the OP that he should have got the longstanding defect repaired earlier.
Squiggs said:
There is no helpful advice to give - apart from advising the OP that he should have got the longstanding defect repaired earlier.
There will be someone that could give a pointer - I cant because I know nothing about maintaining high end cars.This one didn't start off in SPL so I dont think he's looking to find out how land the bill on the garage.
Best bodyshop local to the op would be helpful.
Black_S3 said:
or another view: If there's delicate areas on something like a db9, id expect proper care was taken to avoid making it worse... What would you think about during the complimentary clean, someone holding a pressure washer mm's from a rust blister until the paint shifted? Fairness would say to me the owner and the garage both contributed towards the repair. I don't think asking for advice on what to do next is unreasonable....
I guess the point is that if this bubble on the wing was in a place that the mechanic was working (quite reasonable to think he may work over the wing!) then OP really should have pointed it out to them and asked them not to touch it.The only reasonable course of action now is to suck it up and get it repaired properly. I don't think it's remotely reasonable to expect a garage to conduct a paintwork examination ad look for any small areas of blown paint before working, if it was raining they wouldn't have had a hope in hell of seeing it.
IMO, unless OP specifically pointed out the damage and said "FFS don't touch that bit of paint, it's incredibly fragile" then it's not reasonable to blame the garage.
Nice try, but I can't see you getting anywhere.
The bubble was present at the time you bought the car which suggests corrosion going on between the metal of the body & the paint causing the bubble to form. The corrosion will continue until the paint will either split as a result or due to the action of an external force.
Or a previous respray not being properly prepped & a bubble forming as a result of the expansion of air trapped in the filler under the area - not drying filler properly after wet sanding can also achieve the same result. Heat - from the odd hot day we get - causes the air to expand & it will bubble so far before the coat cracks. Baking the new filler with infra-red heatlamps often causes more voids to reveal themselves!
Voids in grp panels trapping air between gelcoat & mat does the same - I deal with a lot of those on new caravans.
You could consider suing the garage through the civil courts for the cost of the necessary paintwork & see what a Judge has to say.
The bubble was present at the time you bought the car which suggests corrosion going on between the metal of the body & the paint causing the bubble to form. The corrosion will continue until the paint will either split as a result or due to the action of an external force.
Or a previous respray not being properly prepped & a bubble forming as a result of the expansion of air trapped in the filler under the area - not drying filler properly after wet sanding can also achieve the same result. Heat - from the odd hot day we get - causes the air to expand & it will bubble so far before the coat cracks. Baking the new filler with infra-red heatlamps often causes more voids to reveal themselves!
Voids in grp panels trapping air between gelcoat & mat does the same - I deal with a lot of those on new caravans.
You could consider suing the garage through the civil courts for the cost of the necessary paintwork & see what a Judge has to say.
Edited by paintman on Friday 29th April 09:07
Betcha the mechanic working on your car saw the blister and gave it a push just to check. "Oh s
t" he exclaimed, and just carried on with his job hoping no-one saw what he'd done. Betcha that's what happened.
However as to liability or who's to pay, well IMHO and IANAL you've got no way to "prove" the garage caused the problem esp since the car was damaged beforehand anyway.
No doubt you were planning to pay to get it fixed sooner or later, so it just means you've got to do it now. You've lost nothing, just suck it up and get it done.
More concerned that a 12 year old Aston has rust issues. My 52 Jag S type is as good today as when it left the factory
t" he exclaimed, and just carried on with his job hoping no-one saw what he'd done. Betcha that's what happened.However as to liability or who's to pay, well IMHO and IANAL you've got no way to "prove" the garage caused the problem esp since the car was damaged beforehand anyway.
No doubt you were planning to pay to get it fixed sooner or later, so it just means you've got to do it now. You've lost nothing, just suck it up and get it done.
More concerned that a 12 year old Aston has rust issues. My 52 Jag S type is as good today as when it left the factory
ColinM50 said:
More concerned that a 12 year old Aston has rust issues.
More likely to be a poor quality paint repair, perhaps after collision damage.Anyway, they're ally, aren't they?
<quick google>
Yep, they are.
But... http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=980...
You could 'ask' the garage to pay as a goodwill gesture the difference between:
The cost of putting the panel back to perfect when it had the thumb sized blister.
and
The cost of putting the panel back to perfect when it had the thumb sized splitster.
In reality however, I think you will find the difference is £zero.
The cost of putting the panel back to perfect when it had the thumb sized blister.
and
The cost of putting the panel back to perfect when it had the thumb sized splitster.
In reality however, I think you will find the difference is £zero.
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