Residential Tenancy Advice - Power off / meter screen broken
Discussion
I have just taken possession back from a tenent of a house.
The electric meter, which is internal and the type with a LCD screen is broken.
By broken i mean the screen has been hit in a way that it no longer displays anything. Unsure if can even display things badly as...
The teneant has informed me, she has contacted her electricity supplier to notify them that the meter is broken, as well as having them turn the power off.
So on this date i have had her sign a form to acknowldege the broken meter as no reading can be taken.
I have texted etc and referanced the broken meter.
Her supplier was Scottish power, as such when they are next available i will contact them such that i can have power hopefully reinstated and address the Broken meter!
As i would like to think they will be aware etc.
The reasons for this might be the feeling they had a little grow room etc!!!. As evident by the cupboard full of screw holes etc. A small hole cut into the plasterboard etc to allow access to the eaves in the roof space. As well as ducting and fans in the skip outside.
Ultimatley i arnt that bothered about the small scale damage internally to the structure by this apparent small scale enterprise.
So my questions are:
How long are we looking at before its likely we will have power restored?
As i have in writting etc that the meter is broken i assume that will fall into her responsibility?
Is guess its likely that a new meter is required before power goes on, as logically it cannot record what power would be consummed.
As such the power in the house cannot be checked as lights etc do not work.
I do not have another tenent going into the property , but am hoping to fully renovate it.
As such without power i cant do that. Although flexible its an inconveniance.
I feel its reasonable to withold the bond until the meter situation is resolved, and i have power restored.
So best to inform her of this ASAP? or wait until i can speak to scottish power on monday when they open?
Any advice would be appreciated
The electric meter, which is internal and the type with a LCD screen is broken.
By broken i mean the screen has been hit in a way that it no longer displays anything. Unsure if can even display things badly as...
The teneant has informed me, she has contacted her electricity supplier to notify them that the meter is broken, as well as having them turn the power off.
So on this date i have had her sign a form to acknowldege the broken meter as no reading can be taken.
I have texted etc and referanced the broken meter.
Her supplier was Scottish power, as such when they are next available i will contact them such that i can have power hopefully reinstated and address the Broken meter!
As i would like to think they will be aware etc.
The reasons for this might be the feeling they had a little grow room etc!!!. As evident by the cupboard full of screw holes etc. A small hole cut into the plasterboard etc to allow access to the eaves in the roof space. As well as ducting and fans in the skip outside.
Ultimatley i arnt that bothered about the small scale damage internally to the structure by this apparent small scale enterprise.
So my questions are:
How long are we looking at before its likely we will have power restored?
As i have in writting etc that the meter is broken i assume that will fall into her responsibility?
Is guess its likely that a new meter is required before power goes on, as logically it cannot record what power would be consummed.
As such the power in the house cannot be checked as lights etc do not work.
I do not have another tenent going into the property , but am hoping to fully renovate it.
As such without power i cant do that. Although flexible its an inconveniance.
I feel its reasonable to withold the bond until the meter situation is resolved, and i have power restored.
So best to inform her of this ASAP? or wait until i can speak to scottish power on monday when they open?
Any advice would be appreciated
When you speak to Scottish Power, they will likely go as a revenue protection job. They will not be happy with the deliberate damage to the meter and will obviously not be too pleased with the loss of money and the cost of replacing the meter. It is a criminal offence to tamper with an electricity meter (Google abstraction of supply).
As the 'farm' has gone, they may not necessarily call in the feds but a bill for the damage is to be expected.
They will likely assume the meter was damaged deliberately and seek recompense so I would suggest keeping hold of the bond is a good idea.
Make sure when you speak to SP you are clear you are the landlord and give them the details and dates of the tenants so the bill and any legal action goes in their direction.
It doesn't matter whether you're bothered or not about the damage, it's SP's asset (or leased by them) so the tenant will be chased for costs to replace.
You are better telling them you suspect it was deliberate up front as if they send a meter engineer out for a 'fault' job and he sees all the screw holes and ducting holes, etc. He'd have to stop and ring it through as suspected tamper anyway.
As the 'farm' has gone, they may not necessarily call in the feds but a bill for the damage is to be expected.
They will likely assume the meter was damaged deliberately and seek recompense so I would suggest keeping hold of the bond is a good idea.
Make sure when you speak to SP you are clear you are the landlord and give them the details and dates of the tenants so the bill and any legal action goes in their direction.
It doesn't matter whether you're bothered or not about the damage, it's SP's asset (or leased by them) so the tenant will be chased for costs to replace.
You are better telling them you suspect it was deliberate up front as if they send a meter engineer out for a 'fault' job and he sees all the screw holes and ducting holes, etc. He'd have to stop and ring it through as suspected tamper anyway.
Hi Thanks for the reply
I fully agree
To clarify, the "grow" was in an upstairs eaves space.
Pretty evident when you poke your head in etc. But to any one fixing / replacing a meter downstairs it would go un-noticed unless attention was brought to it.
Tenancy was all above board , and we have a paperwork trail etc.
When i stated i wasnt bothered about the damage , i meant to the plasterboard etc. Not the actual meter which is definitaley an issue.
Plasterboard etc will all be getting removed as we are taking the whole roof off to extend.
I will definitely make it known that the meter is cleary damaged and how i suspect it may have happened to whoever i speak to at SP.
I have no idea what the cost would be to replace the meter, but as thats the tenents responsibility im not that fussed.
The bond or part off will simply be eaten into to account for any inconveniance in sorting this issue out. And accounting for time the house is without power.
As 2many states according to whats fair and reasonable etc.
Im sure the tenent wont want to get into the legalities of any damage and how it occured!
I fully agree
To clarify, the "grow" was in an upstairs eaves space.
Pretty evident when you poke your head in etc. But to any one fixing / replacing a meter downstairs it would go un-noticed unless attention was brought to it.
Tenancy was all above board , and we have a paperwork trail etc.
When i stated i wasnt bothered about the damage , i meant to the plasterboard etc. Not the actual meter which is definitaley an issue.
Plasterboard etc will all be getting removed as we are taking the whole roof off to extend.
I will definitely make it known that the meter is cleary damaged and how i suspect it may have happened to whoever i speak to at SP.
I have no idea what the cost would be to replace the meter, but as thats the tenents responsibility im not that fussed.
The bond or part off will simply be eaten into to account for any inconveniance in sorting this issue out. And accounting for time the house is without power.
As 2many states according to whats fair and reasonable etc.
Im sure the tenent wont want to get into the legalities of any damage and how it occured!
stewjohnst said:
It doesn't matter whether you're bothered or not about the damage, it's SP's asset (or leased by them) so the tenant will be chased for costs to replace.
Not necessarily. The end user can purchase electricity from whoever he/she likes and is prepared to offer him/her a tariff. That does not mean per se that the supplier owns or leases the meter. It is normally the property of the relevant regional electricity distribution company - http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/Our-company/Electr...This is why every leccy meter has an MPAN number. From it the distribution company can tell from its records who your supplier is. A replacement meter is usually a fairly straightforward operation. It's when it has to be physically moved to a different location that the real fun and games can start.
I agree that the OP's starting point is with SP though.
Red Devil said:
Not necessarily. The end user can purchase electricity from whoever he/she likes and is prepared to offer him/her a tariff. That does not mean per se that the supplier owns or leases the meter. It is normally the property of the relevant regional electricity distribution company - http://www2.nationalgrid.com/UK/Our-company/Electr...
This is why every leccy meter has an MPAN number. From it the distribution company can tell from its records who your supplier is. A replacement meter is usually a fairly straightforward operation. It's when it has to be physically moved to a different location that the real fun and games can start.
I agree that the OP's starting point is with SP though.
10 years ago it would likely be owned by the local DNO but nowadays most of the meters are owned by third parties (known as meter asset providers) that merely provide the finance to buy the commercial asset in exchange for a monthly map charge.This is why every leccy meter has an MPAN number. From it the distribution company can tell from its records who your supplier is. A replacement meter is usually a fairly straightforward operation. It's when it has to be physically moved to a different location that the real fun and games can start.
I agree that the OP's starting point is with SP though.
If you look at most meters, they will probably say property of macquarie asset leasing (or some other company) nothing to do with the DNO any more.
The DNO also don't manage the registrations. When a customer changes energy supplier, the suppliers notify each other of the change so the MAP charges can be reassigned and the new supplier will pick up the rentals.
But as per my previous post, Scottish Power will be paying for the asset either way and it is they who will have to pay early removal charges to the leasing Co and will want them repaid.
But of course, why not let obscure points of debate cloud some sound advice for the op?
I will update here just in case someone in the future has a similar scenario.
I spoke to someone at Scottish Power.
They have created a new account in my name. Such that they can issue me with a token meter key. This may allow me to add credit to the meter.
They also contacted Northen Power who own the actual meter to request a replacement.
SP stated the meter will be replaced like for like.
After 14 days of being their customer I can request the meter replaced to a non token version.
Seems a little wasteful changing meter twice, but happy to go along with the scenario for now.
SP took an intrest in the screen on the meter being broken, and asked if I felt it had been tampered with. As well as if I felt the screen was broken intentially.
As such he requested a call back to arrange the initial Meter swap tomorrow rather than the usual 10 to 15 days.
I get the impression they will have a good look at the meter!
They also asked for the tenents forwarding address.
Coincidentally the tenent rang asking when they are getting their bond back.
I explained that SP will be contacting me tomorrow, and that untill I'm assurred their is no additional direct exspense to me I won't release the bond.
She claimed she didn't know when the screen was broken, and it wasn't her.
That left me intrigued as to how she managed to transfer her account without giving her own meter reading. As well as how any readings were taken in the last 12 months.
But that storey may become more intresting.
Will update further when I know more
I spoke to someone at Scottish Power.
They have created a new account in my name. Such that they can issue me with a token meter key. This may allow me to add credit to the meter.
They also contacted Northen Power who own the actual meter to request a replacement.
SP stated the meter will be replaced like for like.
After 14 days of being their customer I can request the meter replaced to a non token version.
Seems a little wasteful changing meter twice, but happy to go along with the scenario for now.
SP took an intrest in the screen on the meter being broken, and asked if I felt it had been tampered with. As well as if I felt the screen was broken intentially.
As such he requested a call back to arrange the initial Meter swap tomorrow rather than the usual 10 to 15 days.
I get the impression they will have a good look at the meter!
They also asked for the tenents forwarding address.
Coincidentally the tenent rang asking when they are getting their bond back.
I explained that SP will be contacting me tomorrow, and that untill I'm assurred their is no additional direct exspense to me I won't release the bond.
She claimed she didn't know when the screen was broken, and it wasn't her.
That left me intrigued as to how she managed to transfer her account without giving her own meter reading. As well as how any readings were taken in the last 12 months.
But that storey may become more intresting.
Will update further when I know more
Recently completed bailiff repossession of a rental property, departing tenangt presently serving a 3 years custodial prison term.
Signs of burning marks on tails entering electric metre, contacted electrical distribution company, and after some pressure new metre supplied and fitted next day.
Departing tenant had wired the metre, and whilst he had been doing the same, with his debt mounting, the electrical company were sending him cheques refund monies, which he was duly cashing.
At this point landlords are not held accountable for their tenant's utility debts, but the same is only a matter of time.
Signs of burning marks on tails entering electric metre, contacted electrical distribution company, and after some pressure new metre supplied and fitted next day.
Departing tenant had wired the metre, and whilst he had been doing the same, with his debt mounting, the electrical company were sending him cheques refund monies, which he was duly cashing.
At this point landlords are not held accountable for their tenant's utility debts, but the same is only a matter of time.
stewjohnst said:
10 years ago it would likely be owned by the local DNO but nowadays most of the meters are owned by third parties (known as meter asset providers) that merely provide the finance to buy the commercial asset in exchange for a monthly map charge.
If you look at most meters, they will probably say property of macquarie asset leasing (or some other company) nothing to do with the DNO any more.
The DNO also don't manage the registrations. When a customer changes energy supplier, the suppliers notify each other of the change so the MAP charges can be reassigned and the new supplier will pick up the rentals.
But as per my previous post, Scottish Power will be paying for the asset either way and it is they who will have to pay early removal charges to the leasing Co and will want them repaid.
But of course, why not let obscure points of debate cloud some sound advice for the op?
None of the above negates my point that the OP's electricity supplier might not own the meter. I wasn't clouding the issue at all, rather that where a third party is involved there is scope for delay/hassle. That doesn't automatically mean that it will occur though. If you look at most meters, they will probably say property of macquarie asset leasing (or some other company) nothing to do with the DNO any more.
The DNO also don't manage the registrations. When a customer changes energy supplier, the suppliers notify each other of the change so the MAP charges can be reassigned and the new supplier will pick up the rentals.
But as per my previous post, Scottish Power will be paying for the asset either way and it is they who will have to pay early removal charges to the leasing Co and will want them repaid.
But of course, why not let obscure points of debate cloud some sound advice for the op?
mikebradford said:
They also contacted Northen Power who own the actual meter to request a replacement.
I reckon that would be Northern Powergrid. Which is a DNO last time I looked. Macquarie Energy Leasing is in the business of smart meter provision. There are still many thousands of domestic properties which have not yet been converted.Edited by Red Devil on Tuesday 3rd May 21:49
I used to work for a largish landlord (6000 properties). Whenever we came across a damaged meter we reported it as potentially dangerous. We had no way of knowing it was safe so this was the best course of action from the safety point of view. We never lost out by doing this as the network people usually came out within 2 hours and either replaced the meter immediately or made it safe and arranged for a next day revisit. Even if deliberate damage was suspected, they would still reinstate the supply in a safe manner as soon as possible.
mikebradford said:
That left me intrigued as to how she managed to transfer her account without giving her own meter reading.
You'd be surprised how common it is, when you're chasing the cat or dog into the car, reading the little metal box at the bottom of the stairs isn't often a priority. Estimating and rebilling final reads is a cottage industry...
One other thought, depending on the plans for the property in the short term have a think about whether you need power there or not.
If you don't, get them to leave it disconnected as you will then not be hit with the standing charge (daily rate on the meter of a few pence).
Alternatively, if it's going to be empty but you need power (burglar alarm, etc) do top up the key at least once to ensure you don't run out of credit because of the standing charge as it will tick down any credit on the meter.
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