Removing cheating spouse from home - URGENT advice needed

[theboss]

Piersman2 said:

To be fair you've played a blinder to get the old one out and the new one in so quickly and cleanly, and for it all to be the old one's fault. A great demonstration of machiavellianism, well done!

I'd dare anyone here with a pulse, to live with a totally disengaged, emotionally detached spouse having an affair for 15 months and not take a quick fling out of desperation. It's not my track record and I'd reached the point of giving up. It coincides with when they would have been planning to get their house at a well advanced stage of their relationship so as stated above, I'm not going to feel overly guilty about it. Nothing cunning going on.

[theboss]

johnfm said:

theboss said:

She's already ranting about needing money out of the joint account to pay for fuel/groceries and also the car, saying I have a duty to provide her with transport for the kids.

Typically when would you start paying maintenance from? I have said I will start paying when she hands her keys back and comes off the tenancy.

Have you got physical possession of the lease car?

If your name is solely on that I would get it back pronto. You can probably buy a £1k 4 door Polo or similar for her to run around in.

She has possession. She is currently relying it on it and also the new cottage they rented is in isolation 2.5 miles down a track from the nearest public road. I'm waiting until the house is secure before I pull that particular rug. I'm sat here now and they have started taking her stuff out - not much more to go.

Had an interesting conversation earlier it went like this

"I need to take some money out of joint account (near OD limit) for fuel and groceries"
"there isnt any in there"
"you need to start paying maintenance"
"I'll start when you move out of the house completely"
"i have"
"give me the keys back and sign the tenancy amendment then"
"you cant do that"
"okay we'll talk about maintenance when you've finished"
"rant rant rant rant - gimme my money - you're a disgrace for a father - so selfish - rant rant rant"

last thing she screamed when I hung up was "nothing goes on your terms"

So yes, quite looking forward to watching her adjust to her new lifestyle.

Also her maintenance expectations of my income assessed for maintenance appear to be based on my gross daily rate as a contractor multipled by 5 x 52 - not the £50k or so I have paid myself in salary/divs for the last few years

[theboss]

To clarify one thing, he isnt a chef but I understand he was one and its part of the appeal (I was too busy earning to do enough housework apparently)

He is a limited company owner, think he runs a one man band recruitment outfit.

Interesting to note he has left a wife who is sec/director of his limited co (probably non working like mine) plus three kids in a large looking detatched house so he is probably financially totally under the cosh himself now.

What a pair of total and itter fkwits.

[theboss]

Its interesting to note the new guy seems to have flipped a number of limited companies over the last few years. I'm not going to delve further at this stage. I wouldn't at all be surprised if he's been exaggerating his earning potential to my wife during the mistress stage.

My own limited co structure is probably not much different - the wife has been a director and shareholder and we have extracted incomes jointly. She now won't resign her directorship or transfer shareholding without her own solicitor going over things but I have ensured the company is barely more than solvent just in case this situation arose - its turnover is based on my consultancy fees and it has a future tax liability which offsets any assets, there is also no cash sitting around.

For a number of years now my personal salary/div income as recorded on self assessments hovers around £50k. I'm aiming to keep my income at about this level.

I'm therefore offering her £150/week which based on the above website is more than generous for 2 kids, staying with me 2-3 days a week on £1k/week gross. In fact you can go to £1.5k/week gross (£78k) on that website and the payment is still only £151/week.

She hasn't yet formed a connection between me having the kids 2-3 nights a week, which she always maintained she wanted, and the maintenance requirement dropping substantially.

My concern is that she is now going to accuse me of 'hiding' income or underpaying myself deliberately. In the past I attempted to extract literally as much of my turnover as I could, with the tax efficiency of income splitting. Whilst she always berated me for working too much, not taking enough holiday or spending enough time with the kids, and being money obsessed. She is looking at my day rate and in her head believes that is 'my income' and that it will stay the same indefinitely

Now I could probably pay myself more but in the circumstances and with quite a major health setback, I want to change my priorities considerably. I need to work less to aid my recovery (e.g. 4 days a week perhaps) instead of just burning myself out and also to ensure I can be at my home more in order to accommodate my kids as much as possible, I want to take holidays with them, and I'm no longer compelled to take on every single job I can, weekends and all, in order to maximise billing. I also need to re-build cash reserves to safeguard from the risk of being out of work. With my health problems I'm going to struggle to compete for lucrative banking contracts as I did in the past, because of the travel demands and very pressured working environments.

As far as I can tell the courts can only consider true income from salary/divs and other sources - my business turnover shouldn't really come into it. I can always just fold my limited or withdraw from it entirely if she refuses to co-oeprate, and form future contracts with a new company or one which isn't in my direct control, and then draw a reasonable salary.

[theboss]

turbobloke said:

theboss said:

My own limited co structure is probably not much different - the wife has been a director and shareholder and we have extracted incomes jointly.

Is the business bank account a sole authority - looks that way if you can adjust the account cash balance, largely preventing other withdrawals for 'expenses'. If you hold equal shares could this not influence what avenues are open to you? If not then it may not be as big an issue. This is one area where legal advice would be money well spent. Clearly there are differences in everyone's situation but this was the most contentious area for me.

I'm speaking to solicitor today - they have family and commercial teams so hopefully they can answer all questions. Given that the business doesn't have any inherent value and that its future income is dependent on me entirely I don't see what interest she should have in it.

[theboss]

Good points indeed - but given that the future business income is dependent on me personally and that existing commercial contracts are coming to an end very shortly - I could just form new contracts with a different limited co and leave the jointly-owned one to flounder. I don't see how she or anyone else could prevent this from happening.

[theboss]

DonkeyApple said:

If it's just a Ltd for the purpose of receiving and distributing your contracting revenue then another idea would be for you to resign and gift her your shares. Let her be the sole director and run the business while you have a perfect clean start with a new Ltd?

If you end up in a protracted dispute then working for and co owning a company which she is also a director and co owner of is going to damage your business and earning potential. The instant fix has to be for you to resign and gift your shares?

That did occur to me, but there is a future tax liability and some assets (mostly just fast depreciating equipment). And despite what she's done I'm not quite enough of a to saddle her with a business which will fast become insolvent without my continued sales income.

It would be preferable for her to just disassociate herself and let me carry on with it, but she won't co-operate because she naturally assumes I'm trying to do this for my own advantage and that the shares represent an asset for leverage as mentioned above.

If I wanted to restructure, I would not be incorporating a company alone. I have plenty of close friends and relatives with IT consultancy businesses who would happily receive my contract income and put me on their payroll.

If I could share some of the things she said behind my back you guys would honestly just find it staggering. She planned to make this move without me even knowing where she was going.

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 11th May 11:25

[theboss]

Red Devil said:

Sonic said:

4x4Tyke said:

As a director her fiduciary responsibility is to the company, not herself.

What really matters here is has every played a part in actually running the company.

If she considers this an asset to be leveraged to her benefit, she will be in for a shock.

I suspect she may struggle to complete her Self Assessment for 2014-15 without theboss's assistance, let alone run a business as a sole shareholder and director with no income and substantial taxes outstanding to HMRC after theboss has resigned and surrendered his shares, should she does not do the same

If she hasn't already done her SA return for that tax year, she is subject to HMRC sanctions as the relevant deadlines are long gone.

Paper return: 31st October 2015.
Online return: 31st January 2016.
Payment: 31st January 2016 either way.

She will be subject to the late filing penalty of £100.00 and racking up daily late payment charges as well.
http://www.rossmartin.co.uk/index.php/sme-tax-news...

What reasonable excuse can she come up with?

her 15-16 SA is already done and payments on account made in January. Whether or not I make the next payment in July (having been responsible for our income and tax affairs jointly up until now) depends on how she co-operates over the next few months.

[theboss]

I've just had a more civil exchange of texts. So:

1) she has almost finished moving out. Two more things then keys get popped through letterbox (I have locksmith booked anyway, she has probably made copies)
2) she wants a regular maintenance payment to be setup, I have said weekly because I know she'll blow any larger sum and come crawling back. She hasn't suggested 'more' this time so may have done the sums and accepted my offer is generous for what I'm drawing from the limited co
3) she has agreed she will sign tenancy and business resignation / stock transfer forms as soon as I put them in front of her
4) she is going to bank to have name taken off joint account. I will make sure her card is destroyed. I have cancelled 'her' direct debits on the account. This is easier than setting my own account up at this stage.
5) I am having the kids Friday/Saturday nights but she wants them back Sunday evening. We have yet to discuss a regular ongoing agreement
6) she knows the car is being provided on a good will basis rather than as part of any agreed settlement/maintenance, and will organise a replacement as soon as feasible. I have explained I can't afford to keep providing it.

This seems to be good progress from 'the mental' last night. Lets see how much of it she sticks to.

[theboss]

Good points on the bank, I will go down on Friday when I'm near one. I'm keeping the joint account near the o/d limit anyway so she can't have much out.

Just received a shameful settlement figure on the M5 to confirm it's approximately £13k in negative equity just incase she's telling her solicitor about all these expensive 'assets' she can lay claim on

I doubt my dealer is used to administering the usual arse raping and being told 'fantastic, just what I wanted to hear!'

Also just spent an hour and a half on the phone to solicitors and will be getting the ball rolling asap on a divorce. It'll be interesting to see if the wedding certificate is still in the filing cabinet when I get home, or if she's pinched it for the same reason. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see her try and divorce me first for all my 'unreasonable behaviour' especially if she thinks she can assign her legal costs.

[theboss]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Not agreed firmly 'every weekend' but that I want them 2-3 nights a week. I'm working from home quite a lot these days so can do school nights easily.

She has said she wants to be flexible and I'm sure she will want weekends with the kids as well as without them.

I'm also going to be working less hard from now on. I no longer have a high maintenance wife to provide for. The £650/month I've offered her in maintenance I'll save just on all the silly st she used to buy on Amazon etc.

[theboss]

DonkeyApple said:

theboss said:

5) I am having the kids Friday/Saturday nights but she wants them back Sunday evening.

So, er, your social life? Obviously you won't be going on any dates then. You might have just been stitched up with 1-4 thrown in to get you to take 5. Obviously, you need to see your kids as much as possible but 'every weekend' reads like a quick hatchet job and you being used as their free baby sitter. You do need to ensure that you have some weekends free as you are a free, single man now with a brilliant future ahead of you.

Sorry, I mean I am having them *this* Friday/Saturday/Sunday. Not every weekend. We will deal with that flexibly.

I'll be interested to see what state they are in after 5 nights in their new house with this strange new fellow.

[theboss]

JustinP1 said:

I have nothing to add, but just wanted to say well done the boss. You've handled this in a calm way which has certainly meant that your final outcome will be better.

Thanks, but I don't want everyone to think I've been calm all the time. Thursday through Saturday I didn't know what day it was, wasn't eating/drinking/sleeping, constantly at a total loss, angry, tearful etc. It was utter hell for a few days.

Only now do I feel like I have calmed down considerably and thanks in many respects to the kind of support shown here on PH and a few close friends and relatives.

[theboss]

super7 said:

3) Child Maintenance. Are you sure that only decalring your income and Divi's is enough! You should be putting your gross weekly rate excluding VAT into the calculator. Whilst your a Ltd company, you will be "judged" on your weekly rate.

Really good advice overall thanks, but I find this bit objectionable (obviously!)

As I understand it, what my limited company bills for services I provide doesn't really come into it. I have overheads, I have to set money aside for periods out of work through sickness or inability to provide services, pension contributions, etc. and what I end up paying myself personally from the remaining proceeds - and what therefore constitutes my personal taxable income - is what maintenance calculations are based on.

If it were based on my rate then for example one month I'd have to just tell the wife I wasn't earning anything or that I was sick.

It shouldn't be any different than if I were to be employed by a larger consultancy practice paying me £60k/annum but billing my services to clients at £1k/day.

It would be really handy if anyone has any direct experience in this area.

I can always take work on and simply have another company bill the client.

If I were operating inside IR35 then things might be different as generally the turnover arising from a contract just gets grossed up and paid as salary, but I'm not (that's another topic I guess, but essentially I work autonomously outside direct client control and run multiple concurrent engagements etc).

Edited by theboss on Wednesday 11th May 18:01

[theboss]

TheExcession said:

t's totally shtty - I agree.
But you forget, the kids are on that emotional roller coaster too.

It's like I said earlier, you have to ride the long wave of your emotions.

I can guarantee that whilst you (the boss) think you might be gently 'surfing' along thinking everything is going smoothly now, coping with life's gentle ups and downs at some stage someone (probably her) is going to drop a depth charge under you and there will be a massive spike in your emotional instability.

At times like that it is so important to take the time to get back onto (for want of a better term) your 'surf board', regain your emotional balance and just carry on with where you were going.

This is so true in this day and age of instant-messaging/texting/email.

So when that bomb does go off under you because you didn't see it coming (how could you?) and it dumps you in a cold place, rocks you to your core leaving you incessant with rage and thinking 'fk you fk you, how dare you, fk you, fk you - I'm gonna so fking show you....'

It is so important at this time that you climb back on-the-board, regain your emotional stability, and ride the long wave.

I learned this late on after ONE HELL OF A ROUGH RIDE.

She was getting the money, I was gladly having my son every weekend, I used to drop him back on time on a Sunday and he would be dragged kicking and screaming into her house, then the door was slammed shut.

I would be left stood there with the letter box open and little fingers sticking out with screams of 'Daddy Daddy don't leave me DADDY DADDY DADDY DADDY'. I had to walk away. I'd get into the car drive around the corner and sit there bawling my eyes out.

This got fixed by me asking to be allowed into the house, just into the hallway, I never went further (or wanted to go further) than the front door mat.

My son could run off grab some toy to show me and we'd spend a few minutes together before I explained I had to go and he was off again playing with his stuff.

From his perspective, (I've asked him a few times now without putting words into his mouth) he can't remember any of that. He was three then, he's ten now, and we have great times together.

Ride the long wave!

This is a touching post and I don't doubt I have a lot of that to come. Especially if/when the kids do take a preference either way or start telling me things I might not want to hear about their new life.

I'm sorry to hear about your own experiences and how you had to grin and bear the torment seeing your boy in that state. My Dad told me similarly that when he used to leave the house following his separation with my mother, he would drive round the corner, park up and cry his eyes out.

As I'll be on my own for a while my Mum and stepdad are going to start coming up for a few days at a time, largely to coincide with when I have the kids, to help with some of the domestic stuff that (1) I'm not really used to doing - the kids need dinner and laundry doing etc. and I feel daunted by having to do everything for them and (2) health wise I'm going to struggle a bit especially with anything that involves bending/lifting.

[theboss]

She said this morning that I was deliberately paying myself "a pittance" of £50-60k in order to dodge my obligation.

The amount I've offered her is more than the CMS website shows for the above income, and in fact I'd have to be extracting £80k before that figure is breached.

Goes to illustrate her sense of perspective doesn't it. For context we live in rural Shropshire where a £50-60k salary is unheard of, not the home counties.

[theboss]

turbobloke said:

If the CSA calculator gives X - where X is less than the amount you allude to - why not go down the road of X when the solicitors start talking, even initially as then if your generosity remains (if!) it will have a (slightly) higher chance of being noticed and appreciated.

Essentially CMS gives X, I offered Y and she wants Z. Obviously X < Y < Z. The CMS calculator doesn't reach Y until about 1.5x my actual personal income based on the last few years, so this gives me scope to draw more dividends this year without having to renegotiate the maintenance.

I figure if I continue to give her Y regardless of her insistence of Z, and additionally allow her to use the lease car until she has replaced it, a court would consider that I had behaved more than reasonably in the circumstances. I could after-all always 'punish' her by giving her X, or nothing.

By the way, the cost of handing the lease car back is about £50/month less than the cost of seeing through the term, so it could be quite an easy/cheap win to allow her to continue using it for now. The benefit to her is certainly worth a damned sight more than the actual net cost to me. She has stated this morning she is in the process of buying her own car.

I have made it clear I will buy the kids other stuff directly and share costs on extra-curricular activities and so on.

Also pleased to have arranged to take my stepson away for 4 days in June, he has a nice big gap between exams and I'll be bringing his textbooks for revision. We're going to smash up the autobahn so I can spend a few days at the Leipzig Bach festival and then the ring. It coincides with his 16th birthday so I'm also going to get him a bank account and start paying him a small allowance directly.

I wouldn't be surprised if she contacts the CMS and puts a claim in against his 'real dad' who hasn't contributed for the last 15 years. He must be good for a tenner a week which will cover the cost of having her nails done.

Edited by theboss on Thursday 12th May 12:26

[theboss]

There's one other point I want to make actually which may serve to warn others of making very serious decisions at a young age.

This particular snake of a wife was absolutely adamant I should have a vasectomy after my second daughter was born.

I wasn't even 30 at the time. She's a few years older than me and of course has a third older child.

I held my ground firmly on this and eventually told her if sterilisation was the way forward she should have it done herself - it cost me a few grand to have her tubes tied privately in the end.

Certainly not regretting that decision now.

[theboss]

pc.iow said:

And on that note, who you banging this weekend?

Not sure yet, I'll have to see what I can do

I'd give anything to be fully 'able bodied' right now. I reckon I'd be on a full blown rampage. The match.com thread would double in length in the space of a week.

[theboss]

walm said:

Kateg28 said:

What you should be doing is ensuring your children have as much as you can afford...

I don't agree with that but even if I did, the ex-wife isn't the right conduit for ensuring the money reaches the intended recipient is she?

Precisely. I'm likely to have the kids 30-40% of the time as well. She is essentially looking for a four figure monthly sum to bankroll her new living arrangement so she doesn't have to give up her non-working lifestyle nor have the new man feel financially over-burdened by the new arrangement he has essentially committed to supporting.

I told her yesterday, if her income is low, she should get a job to bridge any shortfall. She genuinely believes this doesn't apply to her.

As far as reducing my income is concerned - my personal income isn't reducing at all, in fact its likely to increase and I will ensure what I am paying her reflects this but falls within the CSA/CMS calculator guidelines. What I am not going to do is carry on living as in the past, where I extracted as near as 100% of my billing from the limited co, to maximise family income. Now I have other concerns such as health, I need to work less, and ensure I have decent provision for periods out of work which are now much more likely, and so on.

It's not like I'm sat here drawing £11k just to punish her.

She also gets quite a substantial Disability Living Allowance claim for my autistic daughter... in the past she claimed this without informing me and diverted it to a bank account she opened based on her mother's address. Disability benefit being used as her own personal slush fund to be used to escape the marriage. I found hidden paperwork. So she is quite capable of conniving herself when money is involved.

Edited by theboss on Friday 13th May 10:23