Police too busy!
Discussion
bmw535i said:
Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe was quoted as saying that he believed the fitness test standard was too low and that it should be harder. It seems that it has actually got easier in the last few years in order to accomodate the less fit officers.
If a police officer is fired for being unfit, are they replaced?
The fitness level was, in a specific way, reduced to accommodate certain officers, as was the height test. So one could suggest it was to accommodate the less fit, that is if you didn't know the facts, or were deliberately distorting the circumstances according to your own agenda. Or you might suggest it was to accommodate equal opportunities legislation.If a police officer is fired for being unfit, are they replaced?
Do keep up at the back.
I suppose with any test, if at first you fail, then try and try again.
It does of course make it far easier to pass if the standards are continually reduced and also makes it a fairly pointless test. I'd be interested to know how many officers have been fired for failing to reach the standards and also if they have been replaced.
It does of course make it far easier to pass if the standards are continually reduced and also makes it a fairly pointless test. I'd be interested to know how many officers have been fired for failing to reach the standards and also if they have been replaced.
I'll "out" myself. I'm in the Police. I'm a detective in CID.
Our established strength on my team is one Detective Sergeant and eight Detective Constables. There are three such teams in my office. My team is currently running at one DS and 5 DCs. Two DCs are seconded elsewhere and one is off on maternity, so effectively out of the game for 12 months. This isn't unusual or short term, the other two teams are in similar positions.
Am I busy? Yes. My case docket at the moment consists of:
Long term historic missing from home, which is looking increasingly like it might turn into a "no body" murder;
Electoral fraud, one suspect;
Possession with intent to supply, class A and B (one job), three suspects;
A serious wounding (victim attacked with hammers, bones broken), four suspects;
A complex job with a suspect making IEDs and detonators, single suspect but been going on since last August;
Prison assault, inmate on inmate, three suspects;
Prison assault, inmate on staff, one suspect;
Domestic related threats with firearm, one suspect;
Assault/public disorder, one suspect;
Robbery/aggravated burglary, four suspects;
On top of trying to manage that caseload, which is not unusual in the office, I am also a specialised vulnerable witness interviewer and a nationally accredited drugs expert witness. I have three drugs statements, which take a few days each, especially when commenting on thousands of text messages from smart phones.
I am on nights this week, so my team is another officer short for this week. There used to be twice as many DCs on nights across the whole county (six) as there are now (3). I can end up anywhere in the county. Get two rapes in, which do I go to? Two separate high risk missing persons, which one do I go to?
I can't progress any of my jobs on nights because most of the enquiries are "daytime" enquiries and we can't get tied up with out own stuff in case we are needed to oversee serious incidents overnight.
I will have 20 years in this summer. Despite having a meltdown about three years ago where I was removed from operational policing due to PTSD, I had my first sick leave at the end of January for two weeks after some surgery.
I have it easy. Immediate response officers are rarely double crewed at all. Those covering the more rural areas can have to wait for 15-20minutes for their nearest back up if it all goes s
t shaped. The response teams regularly run out of staff to attend calls for service. Waiting times for ambulances on a "red" call are routinely in excess of an hour. We spend time dealing with so much stuff that isn't "Police" work that there is no time for proactive patrolling.
Response teams have been centralised to three operating bases from six. The teams they turn out now have more staff, but there are fewer staff in total (6 teams of 8 = 48 staff. 3 teams of 9 = 27). Traffic, dogs and operational support/TSG are half the numbers they used to be (in fact when I joined, there were six divisions, with five shifts, who each had a dog handler, plus some extra at HQ, about 40 in total. Now there are less than 20). HQ are looking to "rationalise" firearms/traffic/support group, with firearms taking primacy. There is a recruitment drive for more staff to become firearms officers, and those staff will reduce numbers elsewhere.
My force has lost about 25% of its Police officers and 35% of its Police staff over the last 5-6 years. I now sttruggle to get forensic submissions authorised when previously they would have been submitted without question. I can't remember the last time I actually finished on time. If I go in on a "duty day" as opposed to an "admin day", I KNOW I won't be going home on time.
My longest shift to date is 22 hours, having started at 0600 in the morning, finishing at 0400 the next. It was expected I would still be back on at 0800 that day for my next duty day.
Due to staff shortages, I couldn't get a day off a couple of weeks ago to inter my Mum's ashes at the cemetery. Previously, no matter what, I'd have been able to take that day off. I had to email colleagues around the county to find someone who could swap with me.
But yeah, I'm lazy and sit in the office drinking Scotch from the bottom drawer and spend my shifts betting online.
Our established strength on my team is one Detective Sergeant and eight Detective Constables. There are three such teams in my office. My team is currently running at one DS and 5 DCs. Two DCs are seconded elsewhere and one is off on maternity, so effectively out of the game for 12 months. This isn't unusual or short term, the other two teams are in similar positions.
Am I busy? Yes. My case docket at the moment consists of:
Long term historic missing from home, which is looking increasingly like it might turn into a "no body" murder;
Electoral fraud, one suspect;
Possession with intent to supply, class A and B (one job), three suspects;
A serious wounding (victim attacked with hammers, bones broken), four suspects;
A complex job with a suspect making IEDs and detonators, single suspect but been going on since last August;
Prison assault, inmate on inmate, three suspects;
Prison assault, inmate on staff, one suspect;
Domestic related threats with firearm, one suspect;
Assault/public disorder, one suspect;
Robbery/aggravated burglary, four suspects;
On top of trying to manage that caseload, which is not unusual in the office, I am also a specialised vulnerable witness interviewer and a nationally accredited drugs expert witness. I have three drugs statements, which take a few days each, especially when commenting on thousands of text messages from smart phones.
I am on nights this week, so my team is another officer short for this week. There used to be twice as many DCs on nights across the whole county (six) as there are now (3). I can end up anywhere in the county. Get two rapes in, which do I go to? Two separate high risk missing persons, which one do I go to?
I can't progress any of my jobs on nights because most of the enquiries are "daytime" enquiries and we can't get tied up with out own stuff in case we are needed to oversee serious incidents overnight.
I will have 20 years in this summer. Despite having a meltdown about three years ago where I was removed from operational policing due to PTSD, I had my first sick leave at the end of January for two weeks after some surgery.
I have it easy. Immediate response officers are rarely double crewed at all. Those covering the more rural areas can have to wait for 15-20minutes for their nearest back up if it all goes s
t shaped. The response teams regularly run out of staff to attend calls for service. Waiting times for ambulances on a "red" call are routinely in excess of an hour. We spend time dealing with so much stuff that isn't "Police" work that there is no time for proactive patrolling.Response teams have been centralised to three operating bases from six. The teams they turn out now have more staff, but there are fewer staff in total (6 teams of 8 = 48 staff. 3 teams of 9 = 27). Traffic, dogs and operational support/TSG are half the numbers they used to be (in fact when I joined, there were six divisions, with five shifts, who each had a dog handler, plus some extra at HQ, about 40 in total. Now there are less than 20). HQ are looking to "rationalise" firearms/traffic/support group, with firearms taking primacy. There is a recruitment drive for more staff to become firearms officers, and those staff will reduce numbers elsewhere.
My force has lost about 25% of its Police officers and 35% of its Police staff over the last 5-6 years. I now sttruggle to get forensic submissions authorised when previously they would have been submitted without question. I can't remember the last time I actually finished on time. If I go in on a "duty day" as opposed to an "admin day", I KNOW I won't be going home on time.
My longest shift to date is 22 hours, having started at 0600 in the morning, finishing at 0400 the next. It was expected I would still be back on at 0800 that day for my next duty day.
Due to staff shortages, I couldn't get a day off a couple of weeks ago to inter my Mum's ashes at the cemetery. Previously, no matter what, I'd have been able to take that day off. I had to email colleagues around the county to find someone who could swap with me.
But yeah, I'm lazy and sit in the office drinking Scotch from the bottom drawer and spend my shifts betting online.
Edited by Dibble on Tuesday 24th May 17:58
carreauchompeur said:
The fitness test is a blunt instrument which will be increasingly used to dispense of older (more expensive) officers. I'm a fit 36 year old and even I struggle with the quick turns if my knee isn't happy that day.
I'm sorry but you are not fit if you struggle to achieve 5/4 on a beep test. You say it is going to be used to get rid of people - has this happened already? Derek Smith said:
People with an injury can be fit.
People with an injury can, depending on the injury, perform certain, sometimes most, requirements of the job.
Yes, they can.People with an injury can, depending on the injury, perform certain, sometimes most, requirements of the job.
People who struggle to pass the police fitness test are not fit enough, it's unbelievably easy to achieve the pass mark.
bmw535i said:
Well done. You just passed the army standard too. Only just, but a pass is a pass.
Easy pass if I'm honest. The level for the Police is too low, when I joined it was shuttle runs, body drag and an assault course which was more suited to what the police do on a daily basis. You also had a machine that measured how hard you can push and pull to simulate a struggle with someone.
And with regard to Dibble...... read his post to get more of an idea as to how few police there are.....
Greendubber said:
Easy pass if I'm honest.
The level for the Police is too low, when I joined it was shuttle runs, body drag and an assault course which was more suited to what the police do on a daily basis. You also had a machine that measured how hard you can push and pull to simulate a struggle with someone.
And with regard to Dibble...... read his post to get more of an idea as to how few police there are.....
It is easy, yes. You'd be amazed at how many soldiers can't pass though - pretty disgraceful.The level for the Police is too low, when I joined it was shuttle runs, body drag and an assault course which was more suited to what the police do on a daily basis. You also had a machine that measured how hard you can push and pull to simulate a struggle with someone.
And with regard to Dibble...... read his post to get more of an idea as to how few police there are.....
I'm a bit confused why you quote me saying things I clearly never have. I'd imagine, like many police officers, you're well practised at claiming people said things they never did.
bmw535i said:
It is easy, yes. You'd be amazed at how many soldiers can't pass though - pretty disgraceful.
I'm a bit confused why you quote me saying things I clearly never have. I'd imagine, like many police officers, you're well practised at claiming people said things they never did.
What have I quoted you as saying?I'm a bit confused why you quote me saying things I clearly never have. I'd imagine, like many police officers, you're well practised at claiming people said things they never did.
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