Police too busy!
Discussion
bmw535i said:
Greendubber said:
Dibble being a poster that wrote an accurate lenghty post with regard to the state of police numbers....
I was quoted as saying "failed to reply to Dibble". It's something I never said. Fit up! I'm not disputing police numbers are low by the way.
Bigends said:
Yes I know. They operate a triage system and at least get the ball rolling and have the skills to assess and contact the appropriate resources if 136 isnt appropriate and can provide the proper information from the scene rather than officers guessing what may be wrong and what actions may be necessary. Theyll always attend with an officer, so the One Constable opinion is also present. Theyll advise as to most appropriate course of action
The triage system can often prevent S.136s as the AMP will have access to the NHS data about the person, which often means an appointment etc can be made rather than action then and there.bmw535i said:
What would be the reason that in 2015, 5700 police officers in England and Wales were absentees?
Pregnancy will be a big part I imagine. Edit: I see someone has quoted the Home Office.
bmw535i said:
I suppose with any test, if at first you fail, then try and try again.
It does of course make it far easier to pass if the standards are continually reduced and also makes it a fairly pointless test. I'd be interested to know how many officers have been fired for failing to reach the standards and also if they have been replaced.
The formal, annual fitness test with the processes for failure etc is new. I'm not sure there's been enough time for anyone to have lost their job through it yet. It does of course make it far easier to pass if the standards are continually reduced and also makes it a fairly pointless test. I'd be interested to know how many officers have been fired for failing to reach the standards and also if they have been replaced.
As I pointed out on page 2, it's still no more complicated than this:
La Liga said:
As other have pointed out, it depends on demand what what else was occurring.
bmw535i said:
Greendubber said:
Landshark said:
Whooooooosssssshhhhhhhhh...........
bmw535i said:
I was quoted as saying "failed to reply to Dibble". It's something I never said. Fit up!
To put you out of as much misery as a single post can, I merely pointed out that Dibble's excellent post, showing how the swingeing cuts has meant workloads of such a level that they cannot be serviced, was ignored by you.To make matters quite funny, but perhaps not hilarious, you then posted: 'It's something I never said.' Indeed.
Not sure what 'Fit up' means but I'm guessing it is something that I feel I might aim at you.
Derek Smith said:
To put you out of as much misery as a single post can, I merely pointed out that Dibble's excellent post, showing how the swingeing cuts has meant workloads of such a level that they cannot be serviced, was ignored by you.
To make matters quite funny, but perhaps not hilarious, you then posted: 'It's something I never said.' Indeed.
Not sure what 'Fit up' means but I'm guessing it is something that I feel I might aim at you.
It wasn't ignored, I read it. There were no questions posed though and I'm not obliged to comment on it. Much the same as you have ignored my questions directly asked of you. It's no big deal though, I just assumed you haven't got an answer.To make matters quite funny, but perhaps not hilarious, you then posted: 'It's something I never said.' Indeed.
Not sure what 'Fit up' means but I'm guessing it is something that I feel I might aim at you.
I'm sure you do, and it wouldn't be the first time.
XCP said:
Do the knockers actually believe that there are canteens full of officers eating chips somewhere, who, when they hear a shout of burglars on premises, decide amongst themselves not to go and carry on munching?
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it. bmw535i said:
It wasn't ignored, I read it. There were no questions posed though and I'm not obliged to comment on it. Much the same as you have ignored my questions directly asked of you. It's no big deal though, I just assumed you haven't got an answer.
I'm sure you do, and it wouldn't be the first time.
Just as you don't have to comment on a refutation of your stance, I can ignore questions, especially those which have already been answered, and by those with more knowledge than me. At one time or another, all your questions have been answered but not necessarily by me.I'm sure you do, and it wouldn't be the first time.
Dibble's overwhelming statement, one which shows how undermanned his unit it, deserves some sort of reply, even if it amounts to 'I surrender'.
The workload has increased year on year.
From the early 1990s:
Calls to one of the control rooms in my area more than doubled in 3 years. Yet staffing levels, even in the 90s, dropped.
The number of serials increased year on year, each one requiring some sort of action by the police. Grade 1 and Grade 2 calls, both emergencies, increased year on year. Yet staffing levels in the control rooms were reduced, slowly but surely.
The work generated by the CPS increased year on year.
The only way this could be managed was by using civilian staff for those tasks nor requiring a warrant card or the knowledge of a police officer. Now that the budget has been slashed, civilians have been disposed of and officers are now stuck in offices managing paperwork, although, of course, shown as available for resourcing crime.
You have no idea.
Nobody has answered my question on how many officers have been fired for being unfit and are they replaced in this instance.
How can I surrender? I'm only expressing an opinion - I'm not going to change it just because you want me to. I've already said I know the police are short on numbers. The few they do have, are rubbish. (IMO)
I'm not personally attacking you, so don't take offence. You and others have tried to draw comparisons with the armed forces and also poured scorn on them for being thick etc. I agree with most of the comments, i don't take it as a personal attack as I don't feel it applies to me.
I can only assume you are reacting in such a manner because what I'm saying does apply to you. If the cap fits.....
How can I surrender? I'm only expressing an opinion - I'm not going to change it just because you want me to. I've already said I know the police are short on numbers. The few they do have, are rubbish. (IMO)
I'm not personally attacking you, so don't take offence. You and others have tried to draw comparisons with the armed forces and also poured scorn on them for being thick etc. I agree with most of the comments, i don't take it as a personal attack as I don't feel it applies to me.
I can only assume you are reacting in such a manner because what I'm saying does apply to you. If the cap fits.....
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'Recalled because of the Sun, funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
Greendubber said:
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'Recalled because of the Sun, funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
Greendubber said:
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'
La Liga said 12 staff. There's also all the chaps running around after the McCaans plus possibly others not so newsworthy. The fact remains that they're in another country rather than being available for deployment over here.Greendubber said:
Recalled because of the Sun
So police activity is dictated by the media rather than by operational reasons? Seems a funny way to run the show, especially as you claim to have insufficient resources.Greendubber said:
funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
There's the possibility that they might have some bias in this, wouldn't you agree?Greendubber said:
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
Ah, the ad homs; I'm suprised they didn't appear sooner. It shows an unwillingness to debate the issues.bmw535i said:
Greendubber said:
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
What 9 of them? hardly a 'fair few'Recalled because of the Sun, funny how the family of the missing lad were disgusted with the report and the recall of the officer.
You're like a broken record, a really boring one.
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring.
What is your actual point? You've had it explained to you how demand and response works. It's not massively complicated to get, is it?
If you want greater officer numbers per head like Germany, France, Scotland, Ireland, Northern Ireland, Holland, the US and the other 100 odd countries who have more officers per head than England, then it would cost more money.
At the moment we have one of the lowest numbers of officers per head with any comparable country, yet we imprison more per head than more other comparable country. Someone has to gather the evidence to put people there.
Rovinghawk
Only 9 of the staff were police officers, this was pointed out in the original reports, perhaps go and read them again.
The brass felt obliged to do something, mainly because they have to be seen to be looking into things when the press write inflamitary rubbish. Funny how it all turned out to be a storm in a tea cup though.....
This is just your new 'lessons learned' line that you used to love dropping into each and every thread though isnt it, nice you have some new material though.
Only 9 of the staff were police officers, this was pointed out in the original reports, perhaps go and read them again.
The brass felt obliged to do something, mainly because they have to be seen to be looking into things when the press write inflamitary rubbish. Funny how it all turned out to be a storm in a tea cup though.....
This is just your new 'lessons learned' line that you used to love dropping into each and every thread though isnt it, nice you have some new material though.
Just saying. When people keep bleating on about how all their problems are caused by low numbers, you'd think they would cling to every last one harder than a Scotsman grips a fiver.
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
La Liga said:
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring
So you only want to concentrate on Avon and Somerset. Ok:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
Rovinghawk said:
La Liga said 12 staff.
For what and where? bmw535i said:
Just saying. When people keep bleating on about how all their problems are caused by low numbers, you'd think they would cling to every last one harder than a Scotsman grips a fiver.
Who is claiming 'all their problems' are caused by low numbers? People have taken the time to explain some of their experiences and consequences of the reduced capacity to respond. Whether people like that or not, or want to believe it or not doesn't change the validity.
bmw535i said:
I see they're planning on deploying "dozens" to France in the coming weeks for the Euro 2016 football. I wonder how many officers France would send over if we were hosting the competition.
Any country with modern techniques for dealing with risky football fans will be sending officers, just as they would send to us. If you want to be insular about it, there's a very good chance they'll be a net benefit to us given the football powers available i.e. any of our fans who cause trouble will be prevented from causing people in the future at home.
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
They're not even from the force relevant to this thread which makes it a complete red herring
So you only want to concentrate on Avon and Somerset. Ok:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
Plenty of people join the forces with criminal convictions and are retained after acquiring them whilst serving. Would I be stupid enough to extrapolate that minority and use it as leverage against the whole armed forces, the majority of whom do a good job? Of course not. But then I have perspective and am not trying to desperately score points.
Rovinghawk said:
Apparently there's a fair few of them in holiday destinations, acting in such a manner that their leader has been recalled to front office to explain it.
Quite. All adds to the shortages in this country. Do you believe that when patrol officers here a shout re burglars on premises they just think 'f
k it. Can't be arsed' or do you believe that they quite like catching burglars red handed?bmw535i said:
So you only want to concentrate on Avon and Somerset. Ok:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
I have known Andy Marsh for getting on for 30 years. I worked with him when he was a PC. If you are holding him up as an example of low standards of integrity you are barking up the wrong tree I am afraid.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-bristol-36371...
I love how they say these officers can't be identified. If it's true that there are only a handful of officers on duty, it can't be that hard to find out. Of course, you'd be relying on their integrity to admit it, which leads me onto:
http://m.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristol-police-officer-...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36287828
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