Police too busy!

Author
Discussion

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
I'm not sure why, if a police officer is competent and diligent, they would take criticism of others so personally.
You initially made comments such as these

bmw535i said:
Those that we do have aren't very good (IMO).

bmw535i said:
I have gone on to explain why I think the police are rubbish.
You chose to criticise all police officers, not just the incompetent and lazy. I would suggest that is why the competent and diligent took exception and attempted to explain why your claims weren't correct.

You now appear to be back pedalling somewhat and attempting to make out you weren't criticising all police officers, only the incompetent and lazy. The quotes above show that clearly wasn't your initial position.

Cat

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
You chose to criticise all police officers, not just the incompetent and lazy. I would suggest that is why the competent and diligent took exception and attempted to explain why your claims weren't correct.

You now appear to be back pedalling somewhat and attempting to make out you weren't criticising all police officers, only the incompetent and lazy. The quotes above show that clearly wasn't your initial position.

Cat
Nail, head etc.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
Here is a quote by me from page 4:

bmw535i said:
I have never had a positive experience of the police. It's unfortunate, but true. I'm sure there are good officers out there who are diligent and willing to go the extra mile, I just haven't met any.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Wednesday 25th May 2016
quotequote all
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself.

V6Pushfit said:
the police shift patterns are so ludicrous no officer has ownership of a case as its quickly handed over to someone else
The police need to available 24/7 and the shift patterns reflect this and are mathematically based around demand. The opposite of ludicrous.



anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself
No I haven't. All police I've encountered in their professional capacity are useless (IMO).

No it isn't. Alleged lacking in consistency doesn't detract from someone else's illiterate posts.


Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
No I haven't. All police I've encountered in their professional capacity are useless (IMO).
Yes you have.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
Yes you have.
My opinion hasn't changed. It's very unlikely to as well. The police are rubbish (my opinion based on ones I've encountered) - if you're not, then don't take it personally. I suppose you could always try changing tack by saying squaddies can't read/kill innocent people etc.

It only confirms my belief that police officers are stupid.

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
My opinion hasn't changed. It's very unlikely to as well. The police are rubbish (my opinion based on ones I've encountered) - if you're not, then don't take it personally. I suppose you could always try changing tack by saying squaddies can't read/kill innocent people etc.

It only confirms my belief that police officers are stupid.
I didnt say your opinion had changed, I've read your post and disagreed with you but agreed with the points made by Cat and La Liga.

You're like a broken record, I think everyone is well aware of your opinion as you've repeated about 300 times so I think we get the very repetative message.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
I didnt say your opinion had changed, I've read your post and disagreed with you but agreed with the points made by Cat and La Liga.

You're like a broken record, I think everyone is well aware of your opinion as you've repeated about 300 times so I think we get the very repetative message.
You're being inconsistent now. A well practised tactic from your profession I'm afraid.

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
You're being inconsistent now. A well practised tactic from your profession I'm afraid.
....still going......


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Greendubber said:
....still going......
Not sure what you mean.

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
Not sure what you mean.
Oh well.

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
I asked a question regarding 5700 absentees in 2015. It seems a proportion of these are on suspension.

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2015/03/the-shocking-tr...

How long does an officer face being suspended for if they are accused of, let's say, theft?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
As per Cat's post, you've chopped and changed. Your generalisations have been written several times. It's ironic for you to criticise the writing of others whilst lacking basic consistency yourself
No I haven't. All police I've encountered in their professional capacity are useless (IMO).
I takes a good degree of ignorance to literally read your own generalisations people have quoted and then ignore them.

bmw535i said:
No it isn't. Alleged lacking in consistency doesn't detract from someone else's illiterate posts.
I didn't say it detracted.

bmw535i said:
How long does an officer face being suspended for if they are accused of, let's say, theft?
134.54624 days.

Keep up the Googling, although you actually forming a point that carries weight and validity yourself would be refreshing.











anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
I'm not ignoring my own "generalisations" that people have quoted. I know what I've said.

It's a genuine question about the suspensions. As was the question about how many officers have been fired for failing fitness tests. If you can't answer them I have to make my own assumptions or rely on information in the public forum

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
I answered the fitness test question.

An officer faces being suspended for as long as the investigation takes. Every investigation is unique and therefore the time suspended is, too.











anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
he police need to available 24/7 and the shift patterns reflect this and are mathematically based around demand. The opposite of ludicrous.
4 early shifts 4 late shifts and 4 days off.

Great for a factory but totally useless otherwise and doesn't help with appalling communication.

Example: waiting for a phone call from bib (for confirmation of forensic visit) missed call but it came through as usual as unknown number with no message. So can't phone back without half an hour going through the usual system and being told the case officer is on leave till next week they don't know who rang. Then 4 days later after more phone calls another officer says case notes say forensics aren't coming after all ('not worth it unlikely to yield results etc'). Then 3 days later forensics appear out of the blue and are surprised we aren't expecting them.

A completely inefficient and disorganised muddle




anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
I answered the fitness test question.
Did you? I can't see that anywhere. I also asked if any officers who had been fired for this reason would be replaced. I don't see an answer for that either.

Greendubber

13,129 posts

202 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
V6Pushfit said:
4 early shifts 4 late shifts and 4 days off.

Great for a factory but totally useless otherwise and doesn't help with appalling communication.

Example: waiting for a phone call from bib (for confirmation of forensic visit) missed call but it came through as usual as unknown number with no message. So can't phone back without half an hour going through the usual system and being told the case officer is on leave till next week they don't know who rang. Then 4 days later after more phone calls another officer says case notes say forensics aren't coming after all ('not worth it unlikely to yield results etc'). Then 3 days later forensics appear out of the blue and are surprised we aren't expecting them.

A completely inefficient and disorganised muddle
What shift pattern would you suggest?

Dibble

12,925 posts

239 months

Thursday 26th May 2016
quotequote all
Well I've just got home after my third (of four) night shifts.

The force I work for is a provincial force, with a mixture of urban and rural areas across the county. We have coast, one of the country's biggest holiday resorts, motorway, several large towns (one of which is apparently a city, but meh), border the third and fourth biggest cities in England, we have some of the most affluent and some of the most deprived wards in the country, often cheek by jowl with each other.

As I mentioned earlier, "my" office is currently running at two thirds capacity, staffing/numbers wise. The other investigative hub is in a similar position. On paper, during the day, when all three teams are on, we should have 24 detectives, three sergeants and an inspector on duty, so with the two hubs, double that. Then take off those off sick, those on courses, those at Court, those on leave, those on rest day, those on secondment. We cover an area with a population of about 475,000 people. That's not the whole county (which is about 1,500,000), that's one division. On nights, the detective cover is me. On my own. Or it is between 8pm and 6am, between 6am and 8am there is NO detective cover.

When I went on the night shift briefing at 10pm, there were four high risk missing people to resource, a bed watch and about 50 other calls for service on the dispatchers' screens. All the missing people (the 4 high risk ones, anyway) were from children's homes. One of them goes missing every single night, without fail. Because of the allegations she makes against officers, the trigger plan to look for her has to be a double crewed patrol. She goes missing about 5 nights out of 7.

At 3am the secure mental health unit called in that a patient had self harmed with some sort of edged weapon/implement, would not engage with staff and was making threats to further harm himself and anyone else who came near him. He was supposedly already "in seclusion". The facility had no facility to deal with that person, on site or on call. The patient has previously needed half a dozen officers to safely secure him. Staff WILL NOT sedate him.

The division I work in has a population of about 475,000. My "home" nick covers an area with a population of 250,000.

How many response officers does the OP think paraded on tonight at 10pm to cover those 250,000 residents?

Yes, there are Police officers who are lazy/corrupt/racist/incompetent. I guess it would be less than 5% of the total number of officers who fit that bracket. Even "good" officers get things wrong on occasion. Sometimes it's a mistake, sometimes it's ignorance, sometimes it's incompetence. Even more rarely it's malicious. Generally, those uniform officers are trying their hardest to find and lock up the bad guys. There is no better feeling than tipping up to an "intruders on" and getting a grip of a baddie.

Ownership? I think it was V6pushfit (apologies if I've misspelt/misquoted) who complained about officers working shifts. We have never been more contactable. Response officers have PDAs so can be contacted direct. Callers are automatically sent the log number by text. Our force website has a facility to email officers directly. Some officers are garbage at keeping people updated. Generally, it's because they spend 8/9/10 hours responding to the radio with no chance of a break. Some callers have unrealistic expectations on what will happen with their job. They have unrealistic expectations on what CPS require to secure a charge. They have unrealistic expectations about the Court process. They have wildly unrealistic expectations on sentencing...

So just to remind the OP, for those 250,000 people, how many officers do you think were on duty between 2200 and 0700 (including traffic, firearms and dogs). Forget the helicopter, we are losing "ours" shortly as the big cities both have them already and flight time to us is "under" 20 minutes from them. That's of course if the big cities haven't already got first dibs...