Police too busy!
Discussion
I think all of my points have been centred around my perception. It wasn't intended to cause offence. Some of the replies clearly have.
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
V6Pushfit said:
Shows the shallowness of your arguments really in your comments about Tescos. Had it gone over your head that their share price has ZILCH to do with 24/7 opening and everything to do with retail prices?? Typical blunt half understood reasoning.
Tesco reduce staff at night and put extra staff on at peak times. Just like the Police. Deploy staff when they're needed. V6Pushfit said:
La Liga said:
hat's because you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to police shift patterns. You proposed something that didn't even have 24/7 cover.
Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
Shows the shallowness of your arguments really in your comments about Tescos. Had it gone over your head that their share price has ZILCH to do with 24/7 opening and everything to do with retail prices?? Typical blunt half understood reasoning.Of all the private sector companies you could have picked, you picked Tesco. A wonderful example of private sector efficiency given it has lost 60% of its share price over the last 6 years. Are you going to go for RBS next?
Do you understand how demand is inverted with the public and private sector? It doesn't appear so from what you've written. Demand is generally a positive for the private sector as it is directly linked to revenue, where as the public sector it is 'bad' as it spreads finite resources more thinly.
There's also the 'volatility' within the demand (standard deviations). Tesco will be low where as the emergency services will be higher, but that's a little advanced.
Tesco has underperformed the retail sector significantly. That's nothing to do with retail prices, it's lack of efficiency amongst other things. If you want to hold a company up as a favourable comparison, then at least pick a good one.
bmw535i said:
I suppose if there is no acceptance of reality, then nothing will ever change and you will continue to grab headlines and public opinion will eventually decline.
No evidence public opinion has declined over the past 30 years. In fact, certain areas have increased. Plenty of data online. . La Liga said:
o evidence public opinion has declined over the past 30 years. In fact, certain areas have increased. Plenty of data online. .
Probably true, but like I said it will eventually decline if you can't serve the public properly, which I think most people would agree is the case - for whatever reason.Interestingly the police themselves (54% of 14000 officers in 2012) believed that public opinion towards them had declined over the previous 10 years. I wonder why that is if you say there is evidence to suggest that belief is unfounded.
XCP said:
Probably because they are all stupid. Allegedly.
Perhaps they read what blinkered people post on forums.Another reason, and the one I favour, might be that they realise how the swingeing cuts are affecting the service they provide. But that can't be right as police officers don't really care.
Servicing police officers and those recently retired whom I've spoken with all complain that they are stopped from doing the job as well as they'd wish because of the demand.
bmw535i said:
Probably true, but like I said it will eventually decline if you can't serve the public properly, which I think most people would agree is the case - for whatever reason.
The key word being 'if'. There are 13 million incidents per year. Within that sample some are dealt with badly. Most are dealt with at least satisfactorily (as the people whom are surveyed indicate). bmw535i said:
Interestingly the police themselves (54% of 14000 officers in 2012) believed that public opinion towards them had declined over the previous 10 years. I wonder why that is if you say there is evidence to suggest that belief is unfounded.
It's basic human psychology to reflect upon the past in a more favourable light. It's a flaw like over-weighting one's own experiences as opposed to considering the bigger picture, for example.
Fundamentally, as 999 calls are responded to most of the time (check out the response data if you like), prisoners are dealt with according to PACE, the courts and prisons are full, then the police are suitably efficient. Especially when we have one of the lower police-per-head numbers in the first world.
Derek Smith said:
Perhaps they read what blinkered people post on forums.
Another reason, and the one I favour, might be that they realise how the swingeing cuts are affecting the service they provide. But that can't be right as police officers don't really care.
Servicing police officers and those recently retired whom I've spoken with all complain that they are stopped from doing the job as well as they'd wish because of the demand.
But why would you believe the public don't like you when there is "evidence" to say they do. It doesn't really make sense.Another reason, and the one I favour, might be that they realise how the swingeing cuts are affecting the service they provide. But that can't be right as police officers don't really care.
Servicing police officers and those recently retired whom I've spoken with all complain that they are stopped from doing the job as well as they'd wish because of the demand.
Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
bmw535i said:
But why would you believe the public don't like you when there is "evidence" to say they do. It doesn't really make sense.
Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
There are many cognitive biases and heuristics which influence our perceptions and conclusions. Things make greater sense when they're understood. Here are a few, and many are interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_bi...Perhaps they realise that the "evidence" La Liga referred to isn't necessarily true? I haven't seen this evidence myself to be honest - only the results of the police survey.
Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
La Liga said:
Says they chap whose attempt to come up with a police shift pattern left time gaps where there'd be no one working. You've had to try and distract and make flawed comparisons because you've been shown to know nothing about shift patterns and policing demand.
I couldn't give a toss so I'm hardly going going to put any thought into it. You expect a few posts on PH to rectify the issues when it would take months of consideration and no doubt a huge row with UNISON who would be 'looking after' their members interests ie overtime. You really aren't coming over as able to put forward a valid argument you've cocked up the Tesco criticism for a start, the point was (to spell it out) is they have seamless continuity and communication to keep a large business running 24/7 so that customers don't notice a difference between 8am and 8pm so what have share prices got to do with it? Bizarre La Liga said:
here are many cognitive biases and heuristics which influence our perceptions and conclusions. Things make greater sense when they're understood. Here are a few, and many are interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_bi...
Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
Possibly. I'd imagine a lot of officers feel undervalued by their chain of command and also the poor training they receive.Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
V6Pushfit said:
I couldn't give a toss so I'm hardly going going to put any thought into it. You expect a few posts on PH to rectify the issues when it would take months of consideration and no doubt a huge row with UNISON who would be 'looking after' their members interests ie overtime. You really aren't coming over as able to put forward a valid argument you've cocked up the Tesco criticism for a start, the point was (to spell it out) is they have seamless continuity and communication to keep a large business running 24/7 so that customers don't notice a difference between 8am and 8pm so what have share prices got to do with it? Bizarre
Unison???? What on earth are you on about. Unison have nothing to do with the Police. Elroy Blue said:
V6Pushfit said:
I couldn't give a toss so I'm hardly going going to put any thought into it. You expect a few posts on PH to rectify the issues when it would take months of consideration and no doubt a huge row with UNISON who would be 'looking after' their members interests ie overtime. You really aren't coming over as able to put forward a valid argument you've cocked up the Tesco criticism for a start, the point was (to spell it out) is they have seamless continuity and communication to keep a large business running 24/7 so that customers don't notice a difference between 8am and 8pm so what have share prices got to do with it? Bizarre
Unison???? What on earth are you on about. Unison have nothing to do with the Police. 
t and has no idea what he's whittering on about.V6Pushfit said:
I couldn't give a toss so I'm hardly going going to put any thought into it. You expect a few posts on PH to rectify the issues when it would take months of consideration and no doubt a huge row with UNISON who would be 'looking after' their members interests ie overtime. You really aren't coming over as able to put forward a valid argument you've cocked up the Tesco criticism for a start, the point was (to spell it out) is they have seamless continuity and communication to keep a large business running 24/7 so that customers don't notice a difference between 8am and 8pm so what have share prices got to do with it? Bizarre
Your overall point was about efficiency and used Tesco as an example. I said their performance as a business is far from efficient given the value of their company reduced by 60% due to the way they have managed things. Although that requires consideration of the bigger picture so I understand why you didn't grasp it. You don't seem to understand the fundamental differences in private vs public demand and the 'volatility' and potential of demand, so you're never going to be able to have any depth of discussion about the subject matter. Tesco's demand is a lot more predicable and linear, whereas in the the emergency services it is not.
Shift patterns can be forced upon police officers with short notice.
As others have essentially pointed out, you seem incapable of grasping that police officers have no union. Perhaps start with that prior to trying to figure anything else out.
Shift patterns are designed to minimise overtime, especially in the current circumstances.
Your attempt at a shift pattern managed to leave big holes where there'd literally be no police officers available. That sums up your knowledge on the matter.
You've been called out because you've spoken about something you know nothing about to those who do. Instead of acknowledge that you continue to dig holes.
bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
here are many cognitive biases and heuristics which influence our perceptions and conclusions. Things make greater sense when they're understood. Here are a few, and many are interesting: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cognitive_bi...
Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
Possibly. I'd imagine a lot of officers feel undervalued by their chain of command and also the poor training they receive.Declinist theory is a relevant one, perhaps more relevant for those exposed to a disproportionate amount of 'bad' in society.
Generally speaking, objective data from a sound methodology trumps perception due to human flaws.
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