Police too busy!
Discussion
bmw535i said:
It's just people's opinions based on their experience isn't it. 
Some say the training is bad (fact). Some say it's excellent. Who is right?
Perhaps you can see that there isn't really a right or wrong answer. Some people simply refuse to accept there are poorly trained and incompetent officers and others freely concede that there are. I know who appears the most sensible.
Which people? A speculative group you can take an adversarial position against? Why not from the other side? Some say the training is bad (fact). Some say it's excellent. Who is right? Perhaps you can see that there isn't really a right or wrong answer. Some people simply refuse to accept there are poorly trained and incompetent officers and others freely concede that there are. I know who appears the most sensible.
bmw535i said:
Called out? Not sure why you keep saying I've said "all police are bad/useless" etc. I've never used that phrase. I said way back on page 4 that im sure they're not. 
Because you've generalised many times. You're right though, everyone else who has pointed this out is wrong. It's just you who is right.
bmw535i said:
V6Pushfit said:
I would love to have the opposite opinion but I speak as I find.
Lawless here? Yes.
Funny? Yes for the criminals, vandals, burglars and opportunistic thieves.
Exactly. The response of silly giggling to people's opinions only strengthens their belief in their original assertion. The attitude displayed perfectly sums up the don't care attitude.Lawless here? Yes.
Funny? Yes for the criminals, vandals, burglars and opportunistic thieves.
Dictionary said:
Not regulated by or based on law.
V6Pushfit said:
I would love to have the opposite opinion but I speak as I find.
Lawless here? Yes.
Funny? Yes for the criminals, vandals, burglars and opportunistic thieves.
What area are you talking about? I'm really curious to see how 'lawless' it is from the area's data. Lawless here? Yes.
Funny? Yes for the criminals, vandals, burglars and opportunistic thieves.
Perhaps they're using a shift pattern you designed so there are many hours with no police cover
bmw535i said:
Independent police commission - same source as the 54% public satisfaction figure.
Yet no sources. bmw535i said:
Hundreds more DNA records of terrorism suspects deleted
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36394494
Legal highs ban: 'Poppers' wrongly seized by Crawley Police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-363932...
Logan Peters killed himself following police custody
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-3638627...
More desperate Googling because you're unable to form an intelligent point yourself. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36394494
Legal highs ban: 'Poppers' wrongly seized by Crawley Police
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-363932...
Logan Peters killed himself following police custody
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-3638627...
I think you're still trying to find one because you got shot down so easily with your ill-thought out, reactionary original post.
"Shot down" hmmmm ok
Your arrogance and dismissal of other people's concerns are exactly the kind of attitude I've come to expect from the police.
Anyway, the source you requested:
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/Police-offic...
Your arrogance and dismissal of other people's concerns are exactly the kind of attitude I've come to expect from the police.
Anyway, the source you requested:
http://library.college.police.uk/docs/Police-offic...
bmw535i said:
Exactly. The response of silly giggling to people's opinions only strengthens their belief in their original assertion. The attitude displayed perfectly sums up the don't care attitude.
Silly giggling?I presume you mean people who have direct experience of the subject being debated telling you things you dont want to be true and think are wrong?
OK.
Greendubber said:
Silly giggling?
I presume you mean people who have direct experience of the subject being debated telling you things you dont want to be true and think are wrong?
OK.
Hmmm ok, So you or La Liga are police officers dealing with V6's issues? If not you can hardly dismiss what he's saying with a dismissive snigger and expect me to believe that he is making it up.I presume you mean people who have direct experience of the subject being debated telling you things you dont want to be true and think are wrong?
OK.
bmw535i said:
Greendubber said:
Silly giggling?
I presume you mean people who have direct experience of the subject being debated telling you things you dont want to be true and think are wrong?
OK.
Hmmm ok, So you or La Liga are police officers dealing with V6's issues? If not you can hardly dismiss what he's saying with a dismissive snigger and expect me to believe that he is making it up.I presume you mean people who have direct experience of the subject being debated telling you things you dont want to be true and think are wrong?
OK.
You may like to be all washy and soft with, "Oh it's my opinion" bla bla, but there are those of us who operate a bit more critically and factually. Things that seem a little alien to you and V6.
bmw535i said:
I remember reading that one at the time lots of mixed data. The issue with voluntary surveys with relatively low response rates are the skews of whom is motivated to respond, which works both ways. bmw535i said:
Ha ha how is it "desperate googling"? I have the bbc news app - those stories are all on there this morning. I have my own opinion, you should be familiar with it by now, these current stories and your stupidity only strengthen it.
Because it has nothing to do with your original point that got taken apart with no effort. So you have to find anything you can to desperately distract from the fact you looked foolish with your original post. bmw535i said:
Dismissing people's concerns as wishy washy only confirms your arrogance.
Saying an area is "lawless" isn't a 'concern', it's false. If you or him think it's true, show it to be the case using the definition as the reference point. Pretending it's not false and is a 'concern' is wishy washy from the hard of thinking.
bmw535i said:
Blame the Independent commission. Blame the media.
Neither of which I have done. You need to make things up and misrepresent what I write. bmw535i said:
My original point stands. It always will and you have only strengthened my negative opinion.
The views of the uncritical who use, 'it's my opinion', as some sort of trump-card shield against factual analysis mean little to nothing. bmw535i said:
La Liga said:
"Even you" - more cunning writing to position me as an extreme. It's like having Quentin Letts on the forum.
Feel free to read my previous posts to find your answer.
Not extreme, just blinkered and arrogant.Feel free to read my previous posts to find your answer.
If you're unable to cut through the rubbish and call someone out for misusing the word 'lawless', and instead hide behind 'it's his opinion', then that's a limitation others cannot really remove.
The arrogance is from those who don't accept or consider explanations (like the shift pattern matter) from people with experience and expertise in the subject matter.
bmw535i said:
My original point stands. It always will.
bmw535i said:
It's just people's opinions based on their experience isn't it.
This thread keeps on giving.For someone to make an intelligent argument two things are needed at a minimum:
1. They need to recognise the LIMITS of their own experience and try to find evidence of the experiences of others BEFORE forming an opinion. (Being aware of the huge confirmation bias they face in doing so is just a nice-to-have, I guess.)
2. They need an OPEN mind. Perhaps their experiences were the exception, not the rule. Perhaps there is a reasonable explanation as to why their experiences felt bad but in the larger context make sense. (For example, there are plenty of reasons why a police force might want to use witheld phone numbers as a matter of course. For example, attending a non-threatening non-driving drunk driver might not be the highest priority at that time.)
You fail on both counts.
(Although I should say, posters bringing up the fact you are a soldier and claiming the army is just as bad so you can't hold a valid opinion, are morons. Play the ball, not the man, muppets.)
La Liga these are factual occurrences. They may not happen in your area but they do here. I can go into more detail but its boring although would further prove the point what a mess it is. Its a world apart on the (crap) crime dramas on TV where officers actually take ownership we see a totally different story. Unfortunately you seem to be defending something that is actually happening, which is impossible.
As I have said you also hinge your argument on repeated criticism of my point on shifts when I have already said I couldn't give a toss. You expect a considered analysis on British Police shift changes and proposal in 5 mins which undoubtedly would be thesis size. The point I made was that ridiculous shifts DO NOT help the ownership of cases particularly where officers are hell bent on avoidance and passing anything that needs effort to someone else also using shifts as a tool to do this. I speak as I find, if its different in your area then Joe Public should be very thankful. Maybe it is just this area, certainly the fraud case was being progressed well by a Northern areas who just could not get to grips with why 'Southern forces' weren't responding to requests to send statements (already given) in any reasonable timeframe.
As I have said you also hinge your argument on repeated criticism of my point on shifts when I have already said I couldn't give a toss. You expect a considered analysis on British Police shift changes and proposal in 5 mins which undoubtedly would be thesis size. The point I made was that ridiculous shifts DO NOT help the ownership of cases particularly where officers are hell bent on avoidance and passing anything that needs effort to someone else also using shifts as a tool to do this. I speak as I find, if its different in your area then Joe Public should be very thankful. Maybe it is just this area, certainly the fraud case was being progressed well by a Northern areas who just could not get to grips with why 'Southern forces' weren't responding to requests to send statements (already given) in any reasonable timeframe.
bmw535i said:
Nevertheless, it still stands. Even you must be able to admit there are incompetent police officers?
Of course there are. ANY group of people will have incompetent/less competent members. I just don't believe it's as many as you or V6 suggest. It's a tiny, tiny minority. I (inadvertently) misled the thread yesterday morning. Two of the response officers were specials, rather than full time, fully trained, paid officers.
Last night, the same girl who has been missing every single night this week went missing. Again. She is at real risk of CSE but because of the allegations she makes, it requires a double crewed patrol to look for/deal with her.
We recently lost our city centre CCTV. The supplier of the operating staff to the council are in dispute with the council. The cameras are still there and recording, but either on fixed or "patrol" view. There aren't any operators to move the cameras or zoom in or out.
Tonight I went to two fairly full on mental health issue jobs. My colleagues on a late shift (12-8) in the public protection unit left about 2am and will be back in at 8am to pick up where they left off. Which is dealing with a lady with quite obvious mental health issues for a domestic related incident. She was discharged from hospital because she wasn't ill enough to admit, but she is a potential threat to her partner and children. So despite her not really having committed any criminal offences, we (the Police) have ended up inheriting her. She needs professional, medical help, not locking up in Police cells to prevent her harming herself or others. Locking her up overnight deals with the immediate risk, but not the underlying causes.
The response officers work two earlies, two lates, two nights then four days off. The first day off is after a night, so they've already lost midnight until 0700 as they are at work. They always start back on an early. There isn't the facility to hand off jobs to investigators and the officers have to try and juggle their workload with responding to relentless calls for service. The shift pattern requires five teams to cover it. It's unrealistic to think that jobs can be passed from officer to officer, just so the victim gets a call back. Passing jobs on is inefficient and risks duplication and stuff getting missed. It's naive in the extreme to suggest that officers shouldn't have leave or days off.
I've got some leave coming up. While I'm off, no one else will be taking over my case load. It'll all still be there when I get back. Most of what the police do isn't "crime", but if we didn't do it, no one else would. At night and weekend, anyone in crisis will end up with the police. We are the last resort and we just can't say "no". So rather than going to the assault or burglary, we are tied up baby sitting people with mental health issues or dealing with safeguarding the vulnerable.
Apologies for the rambling post. I'm winding down after my nights and I've had a couple of beers. I'm off to bed now.
I wouldn't say they're morons, just misguided. I'm quite surprised that so many have tried having a go about the army in response, but then I guess people will try and use anything to have a bash. Most confusing of all was mph with his hate filled post and then it later transpired he had been a soldier himself.
I know Dibble, but why can't other officers on here admit the failings of some of their colleagues?
Now you're going on leave and nobody is taking on your outstanding cases, the victims will no doubt feel let down. V6 has stated this is a problem and clearly it is. These victims will not care that you're on leave or there are officers on sick, suspension, attending inadequate training, maternity leave etc.
What will happen when you return from leave? Will evidence have been lost? Will statements go uncollected? NFA due to lack of evidence? All are possibilities.
Now you're going on leave and nobody is taking on your outstanding cases, the victims will no doubt feel let down. V6 has stated this is a problem and clearly it is. These victims will not care that you're on leave or there are officers on sick, suspension, attending inadequate training, maternity leave etc.
What will happen when you return from leave? Will evidence have been lost? Will statements go uncollected? NFA due to lack of evidence? All are possibilities.
bmw535i said:
I know Dibble, but why can't other officers on here admit the failings of some of their colleagues?
You should read Derek's book if you think they all believe they are great.https://www.amazon.co.uk/Both-sides-force-adequate...
walm said:
You should read Derek's book if you think they all believe they are great.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Both-sides-force-adequate...
I'd like to think the police have made some improvements since the 70's?https://www.amazon.co.uk/Both-sides-force-adequate...
bmw535i said:
I know Dibble, but why can't other officers on here admit the failings of some of their colleagues?
Where have people denied / not the failings of some of their colleagues? You're presenting a position no one has taken.
bmw535i said:
Now you're going on leave and nobody is taking on your outstanding cases, the victims will no doubt feel let down. V6 has stated this is a problem and clearly it is. These victims will not care that you're on leave or there are officers on sick, suspension, attending inadequate training, maternity leave etc.
Because everyone else has outstanding cases. Probably a lot of them and more than ever. Individual's have ownership of investigations / cases for continuity and knowledge. It's not possible to progress the work of others and your own. It's as simple as that. Things can wait a couple of weeks. Even more so today with a report today as to how the courts are really struggling puts time frames into perspective. The average wait for a CC appearance from the Mags is up from 99 days to 134 days.
On a related note, the more hands on a case, the more likely more officers will be abstracted to attend court.
BTW, it's actually the opposite of V6's issue where he complains no one has ownership and things are passed around.
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