Police too busy!
Discussion
XCP said:
Which was it in your experience?
1. Eventually attended 6 days later after a drunk unlicensed driver hit and wrote off my parked car.They interviewed the driver who was a neighbour - he admitted it. The police took no further action.
2. I caught 2 people breaking into a neighbours house. I rang the police - they didn't attend. I gave them descriptions and the vehicle registration. The police traced and interviewed them and took no further action. I know this because they took the trouble to ring me and tell me.
At the end of each financial year, we get calls from various maintenance departments, in various constabularies and nhs properties begging to spend £XXXXX on products we supply just to make sure their maintenance budgets are fully spent.
They don't need these products, most of them will be kept on site somewhere locked away, eventually forgotten about, and more will be bought the following year.
This is just from maintenance. Many more departments, like IT, purchasing, etc will all be doing the same.
Yes budgets have been reduced, it's a shame the wastage within hasn't!
They don't need these products, most of them will be kept on site somewhere locked away, eventually forgotten about, and more will be bought the following year.
This is just from maintenance. Many more departments, like IT, purchasing, etc will all be doing the same.
Yes budgets have been reduced, it's a shame the wastage within hasn't!
bmw535i said:
1. Eventually attended 6 days later after a drunk unlicensed driver hit and wrote off my parked car.
They interviewed the driver who was a neighbour - he admitted it. The police took no further action.
2. I caught 2 people breaking into a neighbours house. I rang the police - they didn't attend. I gave them descriptions and the vehicle registration. The police traced and interviewed them and took no further action. I know this because they took the trouble to ring me and tell me.
Thanks.They interviewed the driver who was a neighbour - he admitted it. The police took no further action.
2. I caught 2 people breaking into a neighbours house. I rang the police - they didn't attend. I gave them descriptions and the vehicle registration. The police traced and interviewed them and took no further action. I know this because they took the trouble to ring me and tell me.
so 'mug work off' means make an NFA decision having interviewed a suspect? I can't see the parallel with the Somerset case to be honest.
Question to all the BiB posting about this:
Last Saturday early evening (6.30ish) I was travelling on the A166 from York to Driffield.
I came to Garrowby Hill and there was a car off the road, street view link - http://tinyurl.com/zyz9xto - about opposite the old AA box.
The car wasn't in any way blocking the road. Parked opposite were two 'panda' cars and two BiB and a man who I'd guess was the driver. They were just chatting and probably waiting for a recovery truck.
Did it need two BiB to wait?
Then I start to go up the hill and a plain police car (front grill light flashing) comes down the hill overtook a truck and forced me to stand on my brakes (ABS cut in) to avoid him hitting me!
OK, I'm assuming that he was going to the accident but that was my assumption as it would be of most member of the public.
Why was he needed and why was he going so fast?
You see BIB, this is how members of the public see you most of the time. I'm genuinely not having a go at you just pointing out 'our' side.
Last Saturday early evening (6.30ish) I was travelling on the A166 from York to Driffield.
I came to Garrowby Hill and there was a car off the road, street view link - http://tinyurl.com/zyz9xto - about opposite the old AA box.
The car wasn't in any way blocking the road. Parked opposite were two 'panda' cars and two BiB and a man who I'd guess was the driver. They were just chatting and probably waiting for a recovery truck.
Did it need two BiB to wait?
Then I start to go up the hill and a plain police car (front grill light flashing) comes down the hill overtook a truck and forced me to stand on my brakes (ABS cut in) to avoid him hitting me!
OK, I'm assuming that he was going to the accident but that was my assumption as it would be of most member of the public.
Why was he needed and why was he going so fast?
You see BIB, this is how members of the public see you most of the time. I'm genuinely not having a go at you just pointing out 'our' side.
Perhaps sending someone along to see the caller and checking they were okay rather than apologising over the phone two hours later may have gone some way to damage limitation here.
I'm sure that the enquiry will establish that every unit in the county was tied up with more pressing jobs and this wasn't the fault of an inept operator
I'm sure that the enquiry will establish that every unit in the county was tied up with more pressing jobs and this wasn't the fault of an inept operator
Perhaps the OP could start a post saying 'Mental health teams to busy to deal with mentally ill person'. Or children's home to busy to collect 'missing' feral youth. Teacher too busy to deal with naughty child. Nurse too busy to call family of dying patient. Parent too busy to tell off naughty offspring. The list is endless. All these scenarios are situations where organisations pass off their responsibilities to a police because we can't say 'no'.
One 'missing' person can wipe out a whole shift. A person standing on a m/way bridge commits every single resource for hours. It's ok though, Theresa May stood up yesterday and said she's increased the frontline and reduced bureaucracy. What's a couple of fibs between friends.
One 'missing' person can wipe out a whole shift. A person standing on a m/way bridge commits every single resource for hours. It's ok though, Theresa May stood up yesterday and said she's increased the frontline and reduced bureaucracy. What's a couple of fibs between friends.
hora said:
OP don't read BBC online, I've spotted a few times now where they misrepresent a story and write in a few paragraphs. You'd think they'd have higher standards. Plus you can't taint Greater Manchester Police with your generic 'all Police'.
Hmmmm okhttp://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-34...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
Perhaps we should do a thread on 'all soldiers drink piss and s
t' as that was in the news lately. We could dig out links showing the armed forces in a negative light.
Fortunately, most of us are intelligent enough to look past crap journalism and recognise 99.9% are doing the best they can.
t' as that was in the news lately. We could dig out links showing the armed forces in a negative light. Fortunately, most of us are intelligent enough to look past crap journalism and recognise 99.9% are doing the best they can.
As a more serious response and Derek may like to know this given his past in Control rooms.
The Met are redesigning their call response gradings. The force is unable to meet its charter times on Soonest/Standard response grade calls - those to be attended within an hour.
Control will now offer two response grades.
Immediate - those got to in under 15 minutes, and which is a generally met target with 90% attended within charter.
And everything else. No times. Just being abandoned.
Case Progression Units are being disbanded. Relief PC's will keep their own investigations.
CID remits being reduced at the same time, they will no longer investigate robberies, burglaries or fraud. These will fall to the uniform teams. The case loads on detectives are deemed too high. This means response officers will no longer drop off and go back on patrol, they will be tied up for hours. Only if the investigation is 'likely' to take over 80 hours will it be able to be handed over.
A re-think on the number of custody suites is due. With closures planned. Most Friday and Saturday evenings they are already full. That won't be an issue as there will be no officers outside the station in any case.
Case preparation staff have already gone. Officers now do all the paperwork, whereas for years there was back office staff doing that. It's been a big hit on officer time.
The volume of crimes is going up. The call numbers are increasing, steadily. Officer numbers and certainly officer experience is decreasing.
To the poster mentioning budgets - all stake holders hold back funds till the end of the budget year and then spend. It's use it or lose it. And once it's gone from your yearly budget you have no room to cover the 'what ifs'. But you know that, but nothing beats a cheap shot....
The Met are redesigning their call response gradings. The force is unable to meet its charter times on Soonest/Standard response grade calls - those to be attended within an hour.
Control will now offer two response grades.
Immediate - those got to in under 15 minutes, and which is a generally met target with 90% attended within charter.
And everything else. No times. Just being abandoned.
Case Progression Units are being disbanded. Relief PC's will keep their own investigations.
CID remits being reduced at the same time, they will no longer investigate robberies, burglaries or fraud. These will fall to the uniform teams. The case loads on detectives are deemed too high. This means response officers will no longer drop off and go back on patrol, they will be tied up for hours. Only if the investigation is 'likely' to take over 80 hours will it be able to be handed over.
A re-think on the number of custody suites is due. With closures planned. Most Friday and Saturday evenings they are already full. That won't be an issue as there will be no officers outside the station in any case.
Case preparation staff have already gone. Officers now do all the paperwork, whereas for years there was back office staff doing that. It's been a big hit on officer time.
The volume of crimes is going up. The call numbers are increasing, steadily. Officer numbers and certainly officer experience is decreasing.
To the poster mentioning budgets - all stake holders hold back funds till the end of the budget year and then spend. It's use it or lose it. And once it's gone from your yearly budget you have no room to cover the 'what ifs'. But you know that, but nothing beats a cheap shot....
Elroy Blue said:
Perhaps we should do a thread on 'all soldiers drink piss and st' as that was in the news lately. We could dig out links showing the armed forces in a negative light.
Fortunately, most of us are intelligent enough to look past crap journalism and recognise 99.9% are doing the best they can.
You could do. It would probably be true - most soldiers I've worked with have drunk piss, as have I. Doesn't really do anyone any harm though. I'm not entirely sure how's it's relevant to a discussion about police neglecting their duty either.t' as that was in the news lately. We could dig out links showing the armed forces in a negative light. Fortunately, most of us are intelligent enough to look past crap journalism and recognise 99.9% are doing the best they can.
bmw535i said:
Hmmmm ok
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-34...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
Sorry I still won't have a bad word said about the GMP. The links showing clearing up/out bad individuals http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-34...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-35...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
http://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greate...
jamesson said:
bmw535i said:
Police 'too busy' to arrest drunk driver in Somerset
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-3631...
Pretty much sums up my experience of the police - utterly useless and couldn't care less
I'm not poopooing your opinion in any way but it's sad that you think the police are utterly useless and couldn't care less. On both counts I would argue that you are wrong. I'm a serving officer and I can tell you I care very much. The colleagues I work with also care very much and they're not the least bit useless. They are the hardest working most dedicated people I know.http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-3631...
Pretty much sums up my experience of the police - utterly useless and couldn't care less
As wiliferus said, our numbers have been slashed by the Home Secretary. Traffic police, response officers, community officers, all far fewer than they used to be. I was a response sergeant for a while and I would run out of PCs regularly within an hour of coming on shift, sometimes ten minutes. Then you're constantly fire fighting trying to prioritise jobs.
I hate drink drivers and it's a crying shame there wasn't someone available to take him into custody but please don't think it's because we don't care. We're fighting with one hand tied behind our backs.
I see your profile says you're a soldier. Imagine going into battle only suddenly to find you have a third of the infantry you used to have. No impact? Or would you find it much harder to carry out your mission?
You imply a 2/3 reduction in numbers? Since when?
The truth is that there aren't that many less police officers than ten years ago, though the number increased up to around 2010 then declined.
2010 143000
2015 126000
About 12% from a peak figure, which should be manageable given technological improvements.
Hardly going into battle "only suddenly to find you have a third of the infantry you used to have".
fastbikes76 said:
La Liga said:
As other have pointed out, it depends on demand what what else was occurring.
You have to be a rather hard-of-thinking, as the OP appears to be, not to be able to consider these variables and unknowns.
Not in the least.. I FULLY appreciate what our services do for us and how far stretched they are due to cuts etc. However to be stretched to the point where not a single person can respond to a someone almost certainly about to cause a fatality is extremely worrying for all !You have to be a rather hard-of-thinking, as the OP appears to be, not to be able to consider these variables and unknowns.
Extreme periods of demand can and do occur. This may have been one of them, and it is likely to be so based on boring reasons as to how things are prioritised. A drink-driver 'in progress' would be high priority so for it not to be allocated would suggest there were multiple more serious matters preventing it from being resourced, as well as a shortage of resources.
I can provide an example:
Uniform shift of 30 comes on to cover 250,000 people.
10 prisoners in the cells who need dealing with. Let's say that takes 8 away.
10 officers at hospital / mental health places / need baby-sitting in custody / scenes need guarding.
12 remain whom are responding to immediate incidents with a greater need than the drink-driver i.e. fights in progress, domestic violence and many others and dealing with those. Many of those incidents require at least 2 officers, preferably more.
It could fall to the specialist roles like firearms / traffic (merged in a lot of forces now), but one serious / fatal RTC wipes them all out.
Sometime these 'perfect storms' come together to severely limited response capacity for anything but the most vital of incidents.
No police officer wants to ignore a drink-driver. It's likely they've seen death and destruction / given death warnings around fatal RTCs.
La Liga said:
fastbikes76 said:
La Liga said:
As other have pointed out, it depends on demand what what else was occurring.
You have to be a rather hard-of-thinking, as the OP appears to be, not to be able to consider these variables and unknowns.
Not in the least.. I FULLY appreciate what our services do for us and how far stretched they are due to cuts etc. However to be stretched to the point where not a single person can respond to a someone almost certainly about to cause a fatality is extremely worrying for all !You have to be a rather hard-of-thinking, as the OP appears to be, not to be able to consider these variables and unknowns.
Not sure if anyone watches police interceptors, but there was an officer on the latest episode who was called by his mum to help her retrieve her car keys after locking them in her car. He was allowed to attend.
Perhaps some forces have different priorities, but this sort of thing just makes the police look like knobs. (IMO)
Perhaps some forces have different priorities, but this sort of thing just makes the police look like knobs. (IMO)
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