Police too busy!
Discussion
bmw535i said:
It is a fact that a soldier would be disciplined for refusing to bear arms - as a coward. I'm not sure why that is pathetic.
.
A soldier is required to bear arms. Police Officers are not. It is an unarmed service. All AFOs are volunteers. Nobody 'refuses' to carry, they are not required to. They will still attend incidents where a firearm would be advisable to defend themselves regardless. Cowards they are not. .
bmw535i said:
Yes I get it, we don't have enough police officers. Those that we do have aren't very good (IMO).
There are good and bad in every walk of life.The police are no different.
The vast majority of front-line cops , in my experience, are good.
But your opening post was about how crap the police are because they didn't have the resources to deal with a drink driver.
That's not the fault of individual officers - that's because there aren't enough cops to go around.
It happens.
Elroy Blue said:
A soldier is required to bear arms. Police Officers are not. It is an unarmed service. All AFOs are volunteers. Nobody 'refuses' to carry, they are not required to. They will still attend incidents where a firearm would be advisable to defend themselves regardless. Cowards they are not.
I never said they were. I said a soldier would be in that situation. 
Red 4 said:
bmw535i said:
No it wasn't. I just posted a news article. I have gone on to explain why I think the police are rubbish.
You posted the link and then said "utterly useless and couldn't care less".Not the sharpest tool in the box, are you ...
It's always at this stage of a thread (when people feel offended) that they start misquoting others and making stuff up. If you're a police officer, I'd imagine you're well practiced at that sort of thing.
Red 4 said:
OP - you need a reality check.
There are about 120,000 police officers in England and Wales.
About 30,000 of those are in the Met.
That leaves 90,000 for the rest of the country.
Divide that number by 4 (for 4 shifts) = 22,500.
Now deduct from that number officers who are not deployable; bosses/ office dwellers/ abstractions for training courses/ sick/ on leave/ whatever ....
Let's be (very) optimistic here and say 25% of that 22,500 are not "deployable"
That leaves about 17,000 cops to police all of England and Wales - cities like Manchester, Cardiff, Birmingham, Nottingham, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, etc. etc and everything in between ....
Now imagine those 17,000 cops together in a football stadium - they wouldn't even fill half of the average premier league ground ... now think about those cities and everything in between again.
Get it ?
Today, the Metropolitan Police Service employs around 31,000 officers together with about 13,000 police staff and 2,600 Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs). The MPS is also being supported by more than 5,100 volunteer police officers in the Metropolitan Special Constabulary (MSC) and its Employer Supported Policing (ESP) programme. The Metropolitan Police Services covers an area of 620 square miles and a population of 7.2 million.There are about 120,000 police officers in England and Wales.
About 30,000 of those are in the Met.
That leaves 90,000 for the rest of the country.
Divide that number by 4 (for 4 shifts) = 22,500.
Now deduct from that number officers who are not deployable; bosses/ office dwellers/ abstractions for training courses/ sick/ on leave/ whatever ....
Let's be (very) optimistic here and say 25% of that 22,500 are not "deployable"
That leaves about 17,000 cops to police all of England and Wales - cities like Manchester, Cardiff, Birmingham, Nottingham, Bristol, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle, Sheffield, etc. etc and everything in between ....
Now imagine those 17,000 cops together in a football stadium - they wouldn't even fill half of the average premier league ground ... now think about those cities and everything in between again.
Get it ?
In contrast
Wiltshire Police Establishment Numbers (February 2016.)
Police Officers 1015
Police Staff 930
Police Community Support Officers 117
and serves a population of 635,000 people across 1,346 square miles
Incidently we have a new Chief constable as the last one retired whilst being investigated by the IPCC
bmw535i said:
Not sure if anyone watches police interceptors, but there was an officer on the latest episode who was called by his mum to help her retrieve her car keys after locking them in her car. He was allowed to attend.
Perhaps some forces have different priorities, but this sort of thing just makes the police look like knobs. (IMO)
He did proceed to breathlyzer as well, I thought it showed that he was a fair chap.Perhaps some forces have different priorities, but this sort of thing just makes the police look like knobs. (IMO)
I have known police changing a wheel for similar loan females not related to them.
surveyor_101 said:
He did proceed to breathlyzer as well, I thought it showed that he was a fair chap.
I have known police changing a wheel for similar loan females not related to them.
Yes he did, but I think he would have been better placed doing actual police work while the AA rescued the mothers keys. It would have been pretty awkward if he'd had to arrest her for DD.I have known police changing a wheel for similar loan females not related to them.
Elroy Blue said:
A soldier is required to bear arms. Police Officers are not. It is an unarmed service. All AFOs are volunteers. Nobody 'refuses' to carry, they are not required to. They will still attend incidents where a firearm would be advisable to defend themselves regardless. Cowards they are not.
Avon and Somerset seem to have a particular issue of late in the south Somerset area they use pscos to much. They do however suffer from a lack of control over the officers they have.Remember one officer deciding his job of the day was sitting on an unmarked bike at the end of a motorway service access road stoping drivers and turning then back. When I produced highways agency id, and a motorway pass signed by the sectary of state he still would not me pass. Would not procduce a warrant card either. He insisted the road used mainly by service station staff was very dangerous due to high speed emergency vehicles and not safe for me to use, however he wanted me now at the end to travel back up it back to the southbound carriageway. Also costa staff were coming and going even though it was SO dangerous. Why would you send members of the public up a dangerous road as punishment for using it. Only a&e police.
He would not reveal his unit or inspector so had to ring our liaison officer and give them his collar number and spent quite a time to area control room. It turns out he was not suppose to be within a country mile of this private acces road which also used by members of the public to access the hotel on the northbound side. After a formal complaint he was supposed reprimanded but seriously were do they find these planks. His inspector could not explain what he was doing or why he was interfering with a private access road.
I also never forget the time I set off a full scale man hunt when 14 for riding without lights on a summer even on my cycle and cycling on the pavement. I stupidly ignored a uniformed officer who shouted at me and used some lanes to get home however when I popped out onto a main road a marked p Reg Astra with no lights on itself turned into me knocking me from my bike and the officer proceeded to read the riot act showing no care for what he had just done. At 14 I didn't carry and I'd so they called my home to verify who I was, they did not tell my mum why or what had happened but hung up. I got home with her Very worried was to what had gone on.i had never been in trouble with the police and was not known to them.
Red 4 said:
And what do you consider "actual police work" is ?
Some examples would be nice ...
He got the approval of his supervising Sargent, I am sure if there was any urgent calls he would,be been told to prioritise those for attendance. He want on any active operation other than daily roads policing i would think. Some examples would be nice ...
I don't see a massive issue with it. Assiting vulnerable members of the public rather than parked looking for speeders seems a good use of his time.
Byker28i said:
Today, the Metropolitan Police Service employs around 31,000 officers together with about 13,000 police staff and 2,600 Police Community Support Officers (PCSOs). The MPS is also being supported by more than 5,100 volunteer police officers in the Metropolitan Special Constabulary (MSC) and its Employer Supported Policing (ESP) programme. The Metropolitan Police Services covers an area of 620 square miles and a population of 7.2 million.
In contrast
Wiltshire Police Establishment Numbers (February 2016.)
Police Officers 1015
Police Staff 930
Police Community Support Officers 117
and serves a population of 635,000 people across 1,346 square miles
Incidently we have a new Chief constable as the last one retired whilst being investigated by the IPCC
If we're playing chief cunstable top trumps Avon and law unto themselves Somerset have a an ex chief show nearly got locked up for unlawful siezer of a guys computer and refusal to comply with a court, he then signed his force up to a company he was a bored director to and got his wife to get £300k out of the local county council advising them they outsource to them as well. He then said none of that was a conflict of interest. In contrast
Wiltshire Police Establishment Numbers (February 2016.)
Police Officers 1015
Police Staff 930
Police Community Support Officers 117
and serves a population of 635,000 people across 1,346 square miles
Incidently we have a new Chief constable as the last one retired whilst being investigated by the IPCC
As soon as sue was announced pcc he retired and then tried to get an injunction delaying his replacements appointment for 6 months, why God only knows
His replacement turned out to be a sex mad looney who was caught harassing female satff and having porn on police devices. He also,tampered with the recruitment to favour more attractive members of the fairer sex. He then shouldn't stand down and is alleged to have had an affair with the pcc.
surveyor_101 said:
He got the approval of his supervising Sargent, I am sure if there was any urgent calls he would,be been told to prioritise those for attendance. He want on any active operation other than daily roads policing i would think.
I don't see a massive issue with it. Assiting vulnerable members of the public rather than parked looking for speeders seems a good use of his time.
I think you and I define "vulnerable" somewhat differently.I don't see a massive issue with it. Assiting vulnerable members of the public rather than parked looking for speeders seems a good use of his time.
A seemingly healthy middle aged woman accompanied by a male friend she had called to help, she also had her date there, in a busy well lit street well covered by CCTV.
I wouldn't personally class that as vulnerable. If a random member of the public who WAS vulnerable had rung 999 or 101 for police assistance to retrieve lost keys, do you really think they would attend? (I'm not suggesting they should)
bmw535i said:
If you weren't being so defensive you'd be able to understand my posts better. It was also not me who began to compare police cuts with soldiering.
It is a fact that a soldier would be disciplined for refusing to bear arms - as a coward. I'm not sure why that is pathetic.
I'm certainly not bitter, I just think the police are utterly useless. That's my impression - it may well be the fault of others that the police haven't served me when I needed them.
I have been the victim of domestic violence - the police refused to believe it until I was attacked with a knife. They took over an hour to arrive on that occasion despite me being injured. The police now claim to take domestic violence seriously - I very much doubt it.
I have never had a positive experience of the police. It's unfortunate, but true. I'm sure there are good officers out there who are diligent and willing to go the extra mile, I just haven't met any.
And I've never met a squaddie that could manage joined up writing, oh well. It is a fact that a soldier would be disciplined for refusing to bear arms - as a coward. I'm not sure why that is pathetic.
I'm certainly not bitter, I just think the police are utterly useless. That's my impression - it may well be the fault of others that the police haven't served me when I needed them.
I have been the victim of domestic violence - the police refused to believe it until I was attacked with a knife. They took over an hour to arrive on that occasion despite me being injured. The police now claim to take domestic violence seriously - I very much doubt it.
I have never had a positive experience of the police. It's unfortunate, but true. I'm sure there are good officers out there who are diligent and willing to go the extra mile, I just haven't met any.
Edited by Greendubber on Thursday 19th May 07:58
It does seems strange that in the 60s and 70s when there was a significant number of Met officers who were corrupt, and taking money from organised crime, it got overwhelming support from the news media. The corruption was largely ignored and even when it was, the emphasis was on bad apple.
Since then the quality of recruit has increased quite remarkably. One intake in my force had 60% graduates, and quality degrees at that. Police now work harder than I ever did, and I was normally a decent worker.
The complaints system is now one of the leaders in the field and it one of the most accessible in Europe.
But it seems it is still not enough. We have one complainant suggesting that he was lied to by an inspector when he was given a result. Like he knows the system.
It is unfortunate the we now have a government that briefs against the police. There was the fat cop 'release', there was the money that the Federation has, and more. It is a shame that people believed the press in the 60s. It is a shame that so many believe it now.
Workload has increased no end. I'm told that wastage is now a problem as the best ones drift off into better conditions and better pay for lower workloads.
I remember the joy when parking was taken out of the hands of the police. Everyone seemed to think it was a new world of good sense. That went well. Will there be similar joy when the government suddenly discovers the police cannot do the things they always used to, presumably because they are feckless and nothing to do with lack of staff, and much of it is privatised. It will happen. Best of luck.
Since then the quality of recruit has increased quite remarkably. One intake in my force had 60% graduates, and quality degrees at that. Police now work harder than I ever did, and I was normally a decent worker.
The complaints system is now one of the leaders in the field and it one of the most accessible in Europe.
But it seems it is still not enough. We have one complainant suggesting that he was lied to by an inspector when he was given a result. Like he knows the system.
It is unfortunate the we now have a government that briefs against the police. There was the fat cop 'release', there was the money that the Federation has, and more. It is a shame that people believed the press in the 60s. It is a shame that so many believe it now.
Workload has increased no end. I'm told that wastage is now a problem as the best ones drift off into better conditions and better pay for lower workloads.
I remember the joy when parking was taken out of the hands of the police. Everyone seemed to think it was a new world of good sense. That went well. Will there be similar joy when the government suddenly discovers the police cannot do the things they always used to, presumably because they are feckless and nothing to do with lack of staff, and much of it is privatised. It will happen. Best of luck.
Dave Hedgehog said:
Evolved said:
Too busy catching the real crims... Speeding motorists!
those 34 in a 30 limit tickets wont write themselves you know 
t. Why, in a time where our police resources are in such high demand due to cuts, are police forces across the UK talking about tightening tolerance on such trivial crime? All this is doing in my opinion is hurting the public opinion of their police especially when they witness far more serious crimes like people driving blind drunk, assaults and burglary being almost ignored because the police do not have the investigative resources to persuit them. There are many beat officers in here trying to defend these actions but from the outside looking in it looks entirely like horrible management at the top missmanaging what little resources our otherwise hard working police officers have on offer nowadays.
caelite said:
As much as you say this in a joking manner I actually reckon this is becoming a bit of an issue, especially in Scotland with the whole 'ZERO TOLERANCE to speed, DD on 1 pint with the new limit, prescription medication(this is the latest one it seems), No tolerance to air weapons' bullst. Why, in a time where our police resources are in such high demand due to cuts, are police forces across the UK talking about tightening tolerance on such trivial crime? All this is doing in my opinion is hurting the public opinion of their police especially when they witness far more serious crimes like people driving blind drunk, assaults and burglary being almost ignored because the police do not have the investigative resources to persuit them.
There are many beat officers in here trying to defend these actions but from the outside looking in it looks entirely like horrible management at the top missmanaging what little resources our otherwise hard working police officers have on offer nowadays.
Scotland's police are different to the England/Wales police set up. I am unaware if they are suffering from swinging cuts. They have an authority which can direct. t. Why, in a time where our police resources are in such high demand due to cuts, are police forces across the UK talking about tightening tolerance on such trivial crime? All this is doing in my opinion is hurting the public opinion of their police especially when they witness far more serious crimes like people driving blind drunk, assaults and burglary being almost ignored because the police do not have the investigative resources to persuit them. There are many beat officers in here trying to defend these actions but from the outside looking in it looks entirely like horrible management at the top missmanaging what little resources our otherwise hard working police officers have on offer nowadays.
South of the lower Roman Wall, the police do not have zero tolerance of speeding and most forces dedicate few resources to it. Most traffic units have been reduced to mere shadows of their former selves and non-traffic officers are generally reluctant to report. I can't speak for all forces of course.
The PCCs in England and Wales must set a crime plan (which includes traffic regulation it would appear) for policing priorities and the CC has to follow it.
'My' PCC was voted in without, in her own words, any idea of policing. Her first function was to set the objectives for the force.
So if you have problems with what the police are targeting in your area, write to the PCC who, I'm sure, will change everything once the errors are pointed out.
I went to a talk by 'my' PCC and she came up with praise for her initiative of liaison groups that would contact residents and passengers for their idea of what should be in the plan. Despite the considerable manpower requirement that this sparkling new plan required, the police force was able to service it by taking officers from other duties, such as the police and public liaison groups that now were not longer required.
Farcical just doesn't cover it.
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