Car parking partnership CPN today

[200Plus Club]

Bit of advice needed please. Received a ticket today at work (NHS site) which has car parking managed by the above.
I have a staff permit £25 a month ! to park on site but got a new car this week. I failed to display my staff badge today ( it fell off onto floor of car) and received a 30 quid ticket within 2 hrs of parking up. £60 if not paid within 14 days.
Obviously agrieved as I pay monthly for parking. The charge notice is for failing to display a permit. I hadn't actually had time to apply for a new permit anyway for the new car, but I am on the system as paid and I also left a note in the car window anyway with my name and number and a message stating awaiting new permit, with the permit itself which looks to have fallen off as I chucked the note in with it.

Obviously need to appeal it, reading up it appears that "mitigating circumstances " are a weak defense. Tempted to ask for proof of their actual contract with the trust as it wouldn't surprise me if not all in order reading some of the stories but car parking is worth £1m a year on our site so it's probably sorted.

Having paid for parking for years this feels unduly harsh. Advice appreciated as to best form of appeal letter and subsequent defense via popla and after. Probably willing to take chance in court if it ever went that far but would it?

[200Plus Club]

To add the permits have your reg number on them hence mine was needing updating but is still live.

[PurpleMoonlight]

You didn't display a valid permit so you breached the contract, you can only hope they concede to waive the charge.

The fault is fundamentally yours though, you got a new car and didn't bother to obtain a new permit.

[200Plus Club]

PurpleMoonlight said:

You didn't display a valid permit so you breached the contract, you can only hope they concede to waive the charge.

The fault is fundamentally yours though, you got a new car and didn't bother to obtain a new permit.

It's not that I didn't bother, but yes I failed to show a permit. Unfortunately we have an old fashioned system of you need to take the permit in person to a desk elsewhere and fill a from in, it's not online etc. I'll see if they have any morals :-)

[Red Devil]

Rather than ask on here, you'll get more active help from pepipoo and MSE. You'll need to do some homework before posting though.*

In both forums enter, in turn, each of the following 3 names (company name and trading names) in the search box.

Liberty Printers (AR & RF Reddin) Ltd T/A Liberty Services and The Car Parking Partnership

The above details are taken from the BPA members Approved Operators list - http://www.britishparking.co.uk/Approved-Operators

One possible comfort is that the ATA for the BPA is POPLA rather than IAS which is the IPC members' kangaroo court.

 * In particular on MSE: read the Newbies thread.

[200Plus Club]

many thanks guys

[Cyberprog]

Worth also pointing out that they can have suffered no loss, you had paid for a permit, and as such they've not lost out on any income.

[200Plus Club]

Yes that was a point, it's a mistake not to display the pass but no loss as we pay up in front for parking for the staff permit.

[PurpleMoonlight]

A free car park operator suffers no financial loss but the supreme court decided a charge is justifiable for breach of contract.

[Trax]

PurpleMoonlight said:

A free car park operator suffers no financial loss but the supreme court decided a charge is justifiable for breach of contract.

There are many other reasons to contest the ticket, it's just that the cost one is likely to not succeed now.

OP, go to the other websites, wade through some of the crap on there to get what you need for a defence, as ticket fell into footwell doesn't usually work. You will have to appeal their automatic rejection though.

[Red Devil]

PurpleMoonlight said:

A free car park operator suffers no financial loss but the supreme court decided a charge is justifiable for breach of contract.

The OP's case is quite different from a 'free for x hours' retail park car park. Beavis is not the magic bullet that many PPCs think it is. The wording on any signage is crucial.

The purpose of a permit scheme (whether paid for or not) is to prevent people who have not acquired the right to park from doing so. The NHS Trust should be telling the PPC to cancel the PCN. To land a member of staff who has made an administrative faux-pas more harshly than anyone who has no right to park and can therefore only be pursued by the landowner for trespass is neither reasonable nor fair.

[funkyrobot]

OP - you have to pay to park at your work site? Jeez.

Have you thought about speaking to the site manager? Tell them the situation and see if they can get the ticket quashed?

[200Plus Club]

We pay 25 quid a month and you aren't guaranteed a spot. If you are later than 9am generally you won't find one and staff are not allowed to go in the pay and display car parks using their permit, you'd have to pay the additional £4 or 5 quid day charge.
The trust make over 1million a year profit on the single site from parking but details of how it works with regards CPP are strictly withheld. No one knows what the profit share is to the contractor.

Any profit to the Trust is reinvested though into care into the general budget.
Hopeful of an appeal to the parking manager rather than the company based on having a valid permit and not causing them any financial loss

[PurpleMoonlight]

Red Devil said:

The purpose of a permit scheme (whether paid for or not) is to prevent people who have not acquired the right to park from doing so. The NHS Trust should be telling the PPC to cancel the PCN. To land a member of staff who has made an administrative faux-pas more harshly than anyone who has no right to park and can therefore only be pursued by the landowner for trespass is neither reasonable nor fair.

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

[funkyrobot]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

Sometimes, I think you post with one hand whilst the other is down your pants. You do seem to enjoy pointing out other people's mistakes.

I feel that hospital parking charging (for genuine visitors) is one of the most disgusting scams in operation.

[Helicopter123]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Red Devil said:

The purpose of a permit scheme (whether paid for or not) is to prevent people who have not acquired the right to park from doing so. The NHS Trust should be telling the PPC to cancel the PCN. To land a member of staff who has made an administrative faux-pas more harshly than anyone who has no right to park and can therefore only be pursued by the landowner for trespass is neither reasonable nor fair.

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

Harsh...

Bit under the circumstances I agree that the OP was correct in being ticketed.

Given that all profits under the scheme go to help fund our valuable NHS surely better to pay up and chalk this one up to experience. An appeal, which will drag on, will only create costs that ultimately take cash away from care. Think of it as a charitable contribution!

[PurpleMoonlight]

funkyrobot said:

Sometimes, I think you post with one hand whilst the other is down your pants. You do seem to enjoy pointing out other people's mistakes.

I feel that hospital parking charging (for genuine visitors) is one of the most disgusting scams in operation.

The OP was not visiting, he is an employee.

There is no legal requirement on employers to provide free parking for employees.

[Helicopter123]

funkyrobot said:

PurpleMoonlight said:

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

Sometimes, I think you post with one hand whilst the other is down your pants. You do seem to enjoy pointing out other people's mistakes.

I feel that hospital parking charging (for genuine visitors) is one of the most disgusting scams in operation.

I agree, but other than charging how can you allocate scare parking to visitors?

[bad company]

PurpleMoonlight said:

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

OP, Please ignore input from Mr Moonlight. He ALWAYS advocates giving in and paying up which is clearly not the right thing for you to do.

[Red Devil]

200Plus Club said:

Hopeful of an appeal to the parking manager rather than the company based on having a valid permit and not causing them any financial loss

I agree that this is the best first step. Be careful that any tardiness in a negative response from the manager will affect your opportunity to make an informal challenge within the discounted payment window.

PurpleMoonlight said:

Red Devil said:

The purpose of a permit scheme (whether paid for or not) is to prevent people who have not acquired the right to park from doing so. The NHS Trust should be telling the PPC to cancel the PCN. To land a member of staff who has made an administrative faux-pas more harshly than anyone who has no right to park and can therefore only be pursued by the landowner for trespass is neither reasonable nor fair.

Except the OP did not have the right to park that particular vehicle.

Not necessarily. It may well be the right to a parking spot and the specific vehicle VRM is merely an administrative matter. You don't know the terms of the Trust's contract with its staff so your comment is mere speculation.

PurpleMoonlight said:

Now, because of his laziness, he is going to waste lots of other peoples time to try to avoid paying the charge rightfully imposed.

Ho hum ....

Ho hum indeed. From Mr Perfect who has never made an omission/mistake in his life. I'm not sure what medication you're on which gives rise to such hyperbole, but a lot of people? Shouldn't be more than two at the most. The parking manager or the person they delegate it to.

Helicopter123 said:

Bit under the circumstances I agree that the OP was correct in being ticketed.

It's not the ticketing per se which is the issue here. It's whether the PPC should be profiting from a mistake by an employee of the Trust. If the parking manager refuses to put pressure on the PPC to cancel the PCN what does that tell you about the attitude of management to its staff? Hardly an encouragement to morale. According to most of those people I know who work in the NHS it's not exactly at the top of the scale right now.

Helicopter123 said:

Given that all profits under the scheme go to help fund our valuable NHS surely better to pay up and chalk this one up to experience. An appeal, which will drag on, will only create costs that ultimately take cash away from care. Think of it as a charitable contribution!

You're conflating profits from paid for parking by MoP's (which is a separate and equally contentious matter) with penalising a member of staff for his error. A simple letter from the OP to the hospital parking manager and his/her response is hardly going to drag on. An appeal to the PPC is something else but why you think a dispute between it and the OP can create costs to the Trust and affect the amount of money available for care escapes me.