30mph on M4 death

Author
Discussion

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Sad story and respect to the family for their stance.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-east-wale...

But should a vehicle restricted to 30mph really be travelling on the M4 at peak rush hour (17:50)? Was there no wide/slow load van behind it either etc?

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Hundreds of slow moving vehicles use the motorway at all times of the day across the country. As stated in the article, the crane had all the correct warning lights flashing away. I don't think you should ban slow moving vehicles because of this one incident. For some reason the tanker driver did not notice the speed of this vehicle. Only the driver will know why he did not spot the slow moving vehicle.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
But should a vehicle restricted to 30mph really be travelling on the M4 at peak rush hour (17:50)?
30mph top speed was probably not relevant, then...

But, seriously, it was a frigging MOBILE CRANE. They are not exactly small or subtle. They have flashing orange lights on. How the flying fkerigar do you NOT SEE IT?

AW111

9,455 posts

132 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
30mph top speed was probably not relevant, then...

But, seriously, it was a frigging MOBILE CRANE. They are not exactly small or subtle. They have flashing orange lights on. How the flying fkerigar do you NOT SEE IT?
My first thought is probably libellous.
So is my second.

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
Hundreds of slow moving vehicles use the motorway at all times of the day across the country.
Maybe that should be looked at during busiest periods as they are way below the natural speed of the motorway and thus cause thousands of additional manoeuvres and delays?

HantsRat

2,369 posts

107 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
Maybe that should be looked at during busiest periods as they are way below the natural speed of the motorway and thus cause thousands of additional manoeuvres and delays?
During busy periods they probably make no difference. You rarely get above 30mph on the M25 or other motorways as it is in rush hour!

SVTRick

3,633 posts

194 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
HantsRat said:
Hundreds of slow moving vehicles use the motorway at all times of the day across the country. As stated in the article, the crane had all the correct warning lights flashing away. I don't think you should ban slow moving vehicles because of this one incident. For some reason the tanker driver did not notice the speed of this vehicle. Only the driver will know why he did not spot the slow moving vehicle.
Well sometimes the whole motorway can be full of slow moving or even stationary vehicles.
A vehicle may break down and become stranded in a live carriage way.
Its all about looking ahead, well past the vehicles in front in order judge what's going on long beforehand and making adjustments in advance.
Its called anticipation and forward observation.
I gave protection with a 32 ton truck with full amber warning lights and hazards years ago when a came across a broken down Corsa in lane 3 of the m3 in heavy traffic at just before 7am on wet dark morning, vehicle had broken down with no electrics.
The young lady driver was petrified and soaked so while we awaited emergency assistance she had the cab passenger seat in the dry whilst protecting the stranded car and giving some advance warning.

Very sad to hear the crane driver lost his life but also the bravery of his partner to plea for
a reduced penalty.


telecat

8,528 posts

240 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Too many of these Slow moving vehicles can be too easily masked. I have to say that a Moped isn't allowed on a Motorway then this shouldn't either. Any other large artic behind the Crane will mask it and when they jump out to overtake it could catch other vehicles behind out. No amount of Flashing lights are of any use if they cannot be seen.

berlintaxi

8,535 posts

172 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
HantsRat said:
Hundreds of slow moving vehicles use the motorway at all times of the day across the country.
Maybe that should be looked at during busiest periods as they are way below the natural speed of the motorway and thus cause thousands of additional manoeuvres and delays?
Is it that time of year already? This st gets wheeled out annually, when would you suggest they travelled and what is slow...56mph which is what HGVs are limited to obviously causes thousands of additional manoeuvres for car drivers travelling at 70mph, as others have said you have too be pretty unobservant not to notice a mobile crane.

Retroman

961 posts

132 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
telecat said:
Too many of these Slow moving vehicles can be too easily masked. I have to say that a Moped isn't allowed on a Motorway then this shouldn't either. Any other large artic behind the Crane will mask it and when they jump out to overtake it could catch other vehicles behind out. No amount of Flashing lights are of any use if they cannot be seen.
I disagree.

A crane with appropriate flashing lights is significantly more visible than most vehicles that use the motorway.
If you can't see if it's clear ahead to overtake, or to pull in after an overtake you shouldn't do it.
Just guessing it's going to be clear without checking is pretty negligent.

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
telecat said:
Too many of these Slow moving vehicles can be too easily masked. I have to say that a Moped isn't allowed on a Motorway then this shouldn't either. Any other large artic behind the Crane will mask it and when they jump out to overtake it could catch other vehicles behind out. No amount of Flashing lights are of any use if they cannot be seen.
You do know that you are actually required to look forward when you're driving on a motorway don't you? Or are you saying it's OK to driving into the back of a line of stationary cars, a HGV restricted to 56 mph, Police tending to an accident, or any other restriction on a motorway because if you're not doing 70mph, then your a hazard!

Saying that these large or slow moving vehicles should be banned is madness. Next time you need a large crane, or a slice of power-station, or a section of new bridge etc delivering, how do you propose to get it around the country?

Ken Figenus

Original Poster:

5,678 posts

116 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I'm not sure he was saying slow moving vehicles should be totally banned? Its probably worth a risk assessment of the benefits in requiring such vehicles to travel during times of lower traffic volumes and traffic densities though? Inconveniencing thousands of normal users where this could be potentially minimised should also be a consideration too - or is that selfish?

It's not for no reason that many slow moving vehicles are actually prohibited from motorways after all...

surveyor

17,768 posts

183 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I saw a very slow moving lorry last week (one that was pushing and being pushed with two tractor units), once in South Wales on the M4 and the same one on the M1 near Nottingham the next day. Clearly going slowly.

Plenty of flashing lights on the lorry and escort vehicle...

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
surveyor said:
I saw a very slow moving lorry last week (one that was pushing and being pushed with two tractor units), once in South Wales on the M4 and the same one on the M1 near Nottingham the next day. Clearly going slowly.

Plenty of flashing lights on the lorry and escort vehicle...
Most of which will be because it's an oversize load, rather than because of the speed.

grumpy52

5,565 posts

165 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I drive a truck , my maximum speed is 56mph -90kph , I invariably spot cranes on the motorway from about a mile away , even in bright daylight .
Anything on the motorway with orange flashing lights is warning us of a hazard , even if its just warning us its a numpty 4x4 driver pretending to be doing something important.
You only see if you look .
Tanker driver is a pillock .

The Surveyor

7,576 posts

236 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Ken Figenus said:
I'm not sure he was saying slow moving vehicles should be totally banned? Its probably worth a risk assessment of the benefits in requiring such vehicles to travel during times of lower traffic volumes and traffic densities though? Inconveniencing thousands of normal users where this could be potentially minimised should also be a consideration too - or is that selfish?

It's not for no reason that many slow moving vehicles are actually prohibited from motorways after all...
Nope, if you read his post he's looking to stop such vehicles travelling on motorways just like mopeds.

As far as I'm aware there is no law dictating a minimum speed on the motorways, but there are plenty requiring care and attention.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
The Surveyor said:
As far as I'm aware there is no law dictating a minimum speed on the motorways, but there are plenty requiring care and attention.
But legislation DOES restrict "certain slow moving vehicles". I CBA to wade through the actual legislation to find out what exactly, but AIUI it's anything not capable of 30mph/50kph. And mobile cranes are deliberately designed to be able to exceed that speed, so are legal.

Raine Man

104 posts

97 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
grumpy52 said:
even if its just warning us its a numpty 4x4 driver pretending to be doing something important .
confused


Vaud

50,290 posts

154 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Raine Man said:
grumpy52 said:
even if its just warning us its a numpty 4x4 driver pretending to be doing something important .
confused
I think his point is that the use of yellow lights is often misused, which I would agree with. They have become so common that people no longer distinguish them as a warning...

gazzarose

1,158 posts

132 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
It wasn't one of the massive mobile cranes, iirc it was a small city crane not much bigger than a lwb transit and could certainly have 'hid' infront of a lorry. I do a fair few motorway miles and a fair few of then towing, and you can just get stuck in a rut of follow the leader behind trucks. A few time I have been surprised when the truck in front pulls out to overtake and I'm presented with a slow moving vehicle. Even with flashing lights something might be harder to spot if there are other flashing lights around, just like the argument of not seeing a motorcycle because cars have now all got drls. I'm not saying they should be banned, because ultimately they're safer on the motorway than local roads, but it can be a bit dodgy at tines.