Slight legal headache. (Failure to notify police of details)

Slight legal headache. (Failure to notify police of details)

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matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I'll try and keep this short. I'm aware that for a complete answer I'll need to speak to a solicitor at some point however I'd appreciate some more information/advice for now.

I got a call from my mother last week saying I had an important looking letter at home and asked if she should open it. The letter turned out to be a court summons type thing.
One times speeding (35 in a 30)
One times failure to notify police.

The speeding ticket was from last November.

Queue a slight panic.

I'm in the Army, and in the last 9 months have moved accommodation (base) 5 times, as I went through various phases of training. To that end, I've kept my insurance updated, but my postal address has remained at home. Otherwise I'd never receive mail due to the frequency of my moving.

At no point have I received a letter saying I've been speeding. There's a chance it arrived at home and got lost with all the spam waiting for me, but I'm pretty diligent about going through my mail so I suspect there's a chance it never arrived in the first place.

So I managed to find some internet and put in a non guilty plea for the second charge and wrote a few paragraphs to explain my personal situation. I included the fact it would pretty much end my career as an officer if I have any sort of serious conviction against me and as such I would never knowingly do anything unlawful. (I'm not going to lose my job over this matter in particular, but the point being it's in my interests to keep my nose clean)


My questions to those of you with the experience:

What usually happens in this sort of case?
Will personal circumstances factor in at all?
Am I right in thinking that the maximum punishment is 9 penalty points altogether? (not including fines)

Any advice regarding lawyers and who to speak to would be good too. As far as I'm aware the Army legal service wont want to know about this sort of matter.

Edited slightly for clarity.

Edited by matthias73 on Tuesday 24th May 01:43

Osinjak

5,453 posts

120 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
ALS will be NFI. Given that convicted sex offenders have continued to serve I think you're safe. I was also going to suggest getting your OC/CO to represent you (if it ever comes to that) but not sure how senior you are.

matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I'd much rather not have a black mark against my integrity on my record which is what a guilty sentence would equate to.

I'm a brand new lieutenant, so I won't be asking the CO to represent me anytime soon.

Osinjak

5,453 posts

120 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Well all you can do is front up and tell it like it is and hope that they cut you some slack. Having dealt with this umpteen times, you'd be better off telling your CoC anyway, they generally don't like surprises such as criminal convictions.

matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
I told the Adj as soon as I found out.


Osinjak

5,453 posts

120 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
matthias73 said:
I told the Adj as soon as I found out.
angel

Good luck with it!

Zombie

1,587 posts

194 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
What's the Failure to notify Police about?

Is that related to the speeding fine?

And who issued the initial ticket? Was it an arrive alive money making van run by the Local Authority?

matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Zombie said:
What's the Failure to notify Police about?

Is that related to the speeding fine?

And who issued the initial ticket? Was it an arrive alive money making van run by the Local Authority?
Here's the charge sheet.



Zombie

1,587 posts

194 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Summons has been issued by the police because you were caught by a camera and failed to identify the driver under the terms of the initial letter then?

The reason I asked my initial question was; I work for a Local Authority. Due to spending cuts we no longer send mail with the royal mail. It goes out via a cheaper contractor and based on the number of people who ring me up saying they've not received such and such, it would seem that a greater number of letters have been going missing since the switch.

Not saying the Contractor is to blame, it could be as a result of internal job cuts.

And TBH, I'm not sure who sends the ticket from the safety partnership - It may be the LA, it may be the Police. And it may be that the Police have outsourced their post to someone else too...

jith

2,752 posts

214 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Zombie said:
Summons has been issued by the police because you were caught by a camera and failed to identify the driver under the terms of the initial letter then?

The reason I asked my initial question was; I work for a Local Authority. Due to spending cuts we no longer send mail with the royal mail. It goes out via a cheaper contractor and based on the number of people who ring me up saying they've not received such and such, it would seem that a greater number of letters have been going missing since the switch.

Not saying the Contractor is to blame, it could be as a result of internal job cuts.

And TBH, I'm not sure who sends the ticket from the safety partnership - It may be the LA, it may be the Police. And it may be that the Police have outsourced their post to someone else too...
God almighty, what next??!!

How the hell can anyone imply that this system bears any resemblance whatever to a system of justice when we serve NIPs in this manner. Utterly bloody scandalous considering the implications.

J

matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
Zombie said:
Summons has been issued by the police because you were caught by a camera and failed to identify the driver under the terms of the initial letter then?

The reason I asked my initial question was; I work for a Local Authority. Due to spending cuts we no longer send mail with the royal mail. It goes out via a cheaper contractor and based on the number of people who ring me up saying they've not received such and such, it would seem that a greater number of letters have been going missing since the switch.

Not saying the Contractor is to blame, it could be as a result of internal job cuts.

And TBH, I'm not sure who sends the ticket from the safety partnership - It may be the LA, it may be the Police. And it may be that the Police have outsourced their post to someone else too...
Thank you for that. I'd have assumed that recorded delivery would have to have been used to prove a letter found itself to my address. Surely the police can't prosecute based on their word that they sent a letter.

Why they didn't just get my contact details through my insurance company is beyond me. It would have taken 3 minutes.

mph1977

12,467 posts

167 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
matthias73 said:
Thank you for that. I'd have assumed that recorded delivery would have to have been used to prove a letter found itself to my address. Surely the police can't prosecute based on their word that they sent a letter.

Why they didn't just get my contact details through my insurance company is beyond me. It would have taken 3 minutes.
Interpretation Act 1978 S7 ... read it, then MTFU and stop wriggling

Data protection act as well

matthias73

Original Poster:

2,883 posts

149 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
mph1977 said:
matthias73 said:
Thank you for that. I'd have assumed that recorded delivery would have to have been used to prove a letter found itself to my address. Surely the police can't prosecute based on their word that they sent a letter.

Why they didn't just get my contact details through my insurance company is beyond me. It would have taken 3 minutes.
Interpretation Act 1978 S7 ... read it, then MTFU and stop wriggling

Data protection act as well
Sure, I'll read that. Try being more polite in the future, it costs nothing.

Zombie

1,587 posts

194 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
jith said:
God almighty, what next??!!

How the hell can anyone imply that this system bears any resemblance whatever to a system of justice when we serve NIPs in this manner. Utterly bloody scandalous considering the implications.

J
PH - pinch of salt? - Several pished assumptions may have been made on my part. It's been a while since I had an NIP but if I recall correctly it was sent out in the normal mail.

If anyone's that interested / bothered you could probably find out through an FOI enquiry.

BlueHave

4,636 posts

107 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Reply with

Dear Chief Constable

"Sorry, in the Army, you know training and/or fighting for my country"


Red Devil

13,055 posts

207 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Zombie said:
Summons has been issued by the police because you were caught by a camera and failed to identify the driver under the terms of the initial letter then?

The reason I asked my initial question was; I work for a Local Authority. Due to spending cuts we no longer send mail with the royal mail. It goes out via a cheaper contractor and based on the number of people who ring me up saying they've not received such and such, it would seem that a greater number of letters have been going missing since the switch.

Not saying the Contractor is to blame, it could be as a result of internal job cuts.

And TBH, I'm not sure who sends the ticket from the safety partnership - It may be the LA, it may be the Police. And it may be that the Police have outsourced their post to someone else too...
Even if it is outsourced, ordinary mail will still be shoved through your letterbox by your RM postie. See Downstream Access.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
matthias73 said:
I'd much rather not have a black mark against my integrity on my record which is what a guilty sentence would equate to.

I'm a brand new lieutenant, so I won't be asking the CO to represent me anytime soon.
I won't amount to a lack of integrity. Keep the Adj updated, be completely honest and don't worry about this affecting your career. If you serve for any time, you're going to see people do much much worse and still promote.

I would definitely as the OC to attend court with you.

berlintaxi

8,535 posts

172 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
BlueHave said:
Reply with

Dear Chief Constable

"Sorry, in the Army, you know training and/or fighting for my country"
Spot on, 'cause that excuses you from all offences.rolleyes

OP, they only have to show that they posted it, not that you received it for you to be guilty of non-diclosure.


Edited by berlintaxi on Tuesday 24th May 07:02

Osinjak

5,453 posts

120 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
mph1977 said:
Interpretation Act 1978 S7 ... read it, then MTFU and stop wriggling

Data protection act as well
Throw yourself in a combine.

paintman

7,669 posts

189 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Firstly IANAL and I suggest you speak to a proper solicitor, preferably one that specialises in motoring matters.
Possible in your circumstances you may be able to use one of the statutory defences to S172:
"S.172, sub-section 7.b, states that you shall not be convicted of failure to provide driver information if you can show that it was not ‘reasonably practicable’ to supply the information within the 28 days allowed.
This section goes on to state that if you provide the information outside of the 28 days, you will still have a defence if you can show that you gave that information ‘as soon as reasonably practicable thereafter’.
We tend to advance this defence on behalf of clients who say that they did not receive the request for driver information in the first place and therefore could not respond, or in cases where the delay in sending out a request has been so long that our clients can no longer remember who the driver was at the time of the alleged offence."
http://www.pattersonlaw.co.uk/motoring-offences/s-...

As you are moving around a lot I would suggest the use of your home address as your permanent address is not unreasonable.
Good luck with this and also with your career.