Slight legal headache. (Failure to notify police of details)
Discussion
mph1977 said:
got an issue sunshine ? have a tissue ...
Sympathy is a word in the dictionary between s
t and Syphilis ...
or has the military gone so soft that ex -STABs are now harder and more resilient than current claimed to be regulars ?
No, I don't really care who you are or what you've got to say unless it's related to the subject matter. However if your idea of being hard is foaming at the mouth whilst typing on an internet forum, then sure you can have that award.Sympathy is a word in the dictionary between s
t and Syphilis ...or has the military gone so soft that ex -STABs are now harder and more resilient than current claimed to be regulars ?
tapereel said:
You appear to be guilty of both charges.
You have not replied to the request to name the driver because you have failed to deal properly with your mail. Using the service as an excuse is unlikely to wash with the magistrates although some are very benevolent. The police serve it and it's considered served in the normal course of the post. Perhaps you had better get mum to forward stuff on to you more regularly.
As the car is registered to you the court is likely and reasonably going to assume you were the driver; the police may well use the insurance details to support this too.
Some CPS prosecutors have been accepting a late admission at court that the keeper is the driver and dropping the fail to ID charge but they don't need to do that as it is clear you are guitly of failing to nominate the driver. You could of course plead not guilty and tell them your cock-and-bull story about mum not forwarding your mail.
If you contact a solicitor they will probably tell you to admit driving and ask that charge be dropped then you will be fined and receive 3 points not 6 + 3 = 9. It's up to you whether you need a solicitor to do that but as an officer I would expect you to be able to present that and the circumstances to a court; you don't need someone to do it for you.
It won't be long before you are expected to lead men and women into a fight and they don't want to be led by someone who can't present to a bench of 3 magistrates and expects his mum to sort out his mail for him. I should put "FFS" at the end of that but don't want to be too hard on you. Enjoy your career in the forces, I enjoyed mine and 3, 6 or 9 points isn't going to hinder you at all. Oh...and let your mum off the mail room duties and use a BFPO address if they still have them, that way your mail does follow you.
You know what, fair one. You have not replied to the request to name the driver because you have failed to deal properly with your mail. Using the service as an excuse is unlikely to wash with the magistrates although some are very benevolent. The police serve it and it's considered served in the normal course of the post. Perhaps you had better get mum to forward stuff on to you more regularly.
As the car is registered to you the court is likely and reasonably going to assume you were the driver; the police may well use the insurance details to support this too.
Some CPS prosecutors have been accepting a late admission at court that the keeper is the driver and dropping the fail to ID charge but they don't need to do that as it is clear you are guitly of failing to nominate the driver. You could of course plead not guilty and tell them your cock-and-bull story about mum not forwarding your mail.
If you contact a solicitor they will probably tell you to admit driving and ask that charge be dropped then you will be fined and receive 3 points not 6 + 3 = 9. It's up to you whether you need a solicitor to do that but as an officer I would expect you to be able to present that and the circumstances to a court; you don't need someone to do it for you.
It won't be long before you are expected to lead men and women into a fight and they don't want to be led by someone who can't present to a bench of 3 magistrates and expects his mum to sort out his mail for him. I should put "FFS" at the end of that but don't want to be too hard on you. Enjoy your career in the forces, I enjoyed mine and 3, 6 or 9 points isn't going to hinder you at all. Oh...and let your mum off the mail room duties and use a BFPO address if they still have them, that way your mail does follow you.
Edited by tapereel on Tuesday 24th May 09:11
However, having reviewed all the mail at home, there is nothing relating to a speeding ticket. I just can't say for sure if it has arrived or not, because I wasn't at home on a daily basis seeing stuff come through the door. Which is why I was interested to know if it comes in recorded delivery or not. That way I can verify whether or not a letter arrived at my house, at which point the blame is completely mine. If anything, I'm giving the police a bone here because I can't stand up in court and say with certainty a letter did not arrive.
It's also very well saying have the mail delivered to a work address but if you've ever dealt with the mail system whilst on a course in Brecon you'd see why I would rather it just collected at home. Further to that, it wouldn't have mattered which address I had my mail delivered to. Looking at the dates, I don't think I was anywhere near mail access for the subsequent 2/3 weeks.
Edited note on that subject: I realise the original post makes it look like I'm not capable of reading my own mail. I was yet again in wales, although only for two weeks, so obviously nowhere near my mail, nor would I have been regardless of what address I have it sent to.
Edit to add:
I'm not challenging the speeding ticket. That's absolutely bang to rights and I'm pretty sure it's a static camera in hi vis on a straight road so clearly I've made a mistake there somewhere.
Edited by matthias73 on Tuesday 24th May 16:59
Edited by matthias73 on Tuesday 24th May 17:15
matthias73 said:
You know what, fair one.
However, having reviewed all the mail at home, there is nothing relating to a speeding ticket. I just can't say for sure if it has arrived or not, because I wasn't at home on a daily basis seeing stuff come through the door. Which is why I was interested to know if it comes in recorded delivery or not. That way I can verify whether or not a letter arrived at my house, at which point the blame is completely mine. If anything, I'm giving the police a bone here because I can't stand up in court and say with certainty a letter did not arrive.
It's also very well saying have the mail delivered to a work address but if you've ever dealt with the mail system whilst on a course in Brecon you'd see why I would rather it just collected at home. Further to that, it wouldn't have mattered which address I had my mail delivered to. Looking at the dates, I don't think I was anywhere near mail access for the subsequent 2/3 weeks.
Edited note on that subject: I realise the original post makes it look like I'm not capable of reading my own mail. I was yet again in wales, although only for two weeks, so obviously nowhere near my mail, nor would I have been regardless of what address I have it sent to.
Edit to add:
I'm not challenging the speeding ticket. That's absolutely bang to rights and I'm pretty sure it's a static camera in hi vis on a straight road so clearly I've made a mistake there somewhere.
Whiteside -v- The Director of Public Prosecutions [2011] EWHC 3471 (Admin)However, having reviewed all the mail at home, there is nothing relating to a speeding ticket. I just can't say for sure if it has arrived or not, because I wasn't at home on a daily basis seeing stuff come through the door. Which is why I was interested to know if it comes in recorded delivery or not. That way I can verify whether or not a letter arrived at my house, at which point the blame is completely mine. If anything, I'm giving the police a bone here because I can't stand up in court and say with certainty a letter did not arrive.
It's also very well saying have the mail delivered to a work address but if you've ever dealt with the mail system whilst on a course in Brecon you'd see why I would rather it just collected at home. Further to that, it wouldn't have mattered which address I had my mail delivered to. Looking at the dates, I don't think I was anywhere near mail access for the subsequent 2/3 weeks.
Edited note on that subject: I realise the original post makes it look like I'm not capable of reading my own mail. I was yet again in wales, although only for two weeks, so obviously nowhere near my mail, nor would I have been regardless of what address I have it sent to.
Edit to add:
I'm not challenging the speeding ticket. That's absolutely bang to rights and I'm pretty sure it's a static camera in hi vis on a straight road so clearly I've made a mistake there somewhere.
Coram: Elias LJ, King J
The defendant appealed against conviction under section 172 of failing to provide appropriate driver details. The notices had been received at his address, but he had been unaware of them. He was at the time working regularly in the far East.
Held:
(i) The offence created by section 172(3) does not require knowledge on the defendant’s part that he is under an obligation to provide the specified information;
(ii) The notice was properly served on the defendant notwithstanding that it was not actually received by him;
(iii) The defendant does not have a defence under section 172(7)(b) merely by virtue of the fact that he has no knowledge that the Notices were sent. However, in an appropriate case a defendant may be able to show in such circumstances that it was not reasonably practicable for him to have been aware of the Notice, in which case the defence will apply.’
All academic if you adopt the info given to you in my earlier post.
In case you missed it Matthias.
agtlaw does this for a living.
He is giving you free advice and is someone who knows what he is talking about.
I would strongly recommend taking it!!
agtlaw does this for a living.
He is giving you free advice and is someone who knows what he is talking about.
I would strongly recommend taking it!!
agtlaw said:
You should deal with this by post.
- Plead guilty to speeding.
- Plead not guilty to failing to nominate.
In the mitigating circumstances section, outline your situation - or write a separate cover letter. Suggest that 3 points and a £100 fine is appropriate; see Magistrates Court Sentencing Guidelines, page 189, part 3.
In the unlikely event that your case is adjourned then get professional help.
Alternatively, if you want to avoid a conviction for both offences then get professional help.
- Plead guilty to speeding.
- Plead not guilty to failing to nominate.
In the mitigating circumstances section, outline your situation - or write a separate cover letter. Suggest that 3 points and a £100 fine is appropriate; see Magistrates Court Sentencing Guidelines, page 189, part 3.
In the unlikely event that your case is adjourned then get professional help.
Alternatively, if you want to avoid a conviction for both offences then get professional help.
walm said:
In case you missed it Matthias.
agtlaw does this for a living.
He is giving you free advice and is someone who knows what he is talking about.
I would strongly recommend taking it!!
Seconded. Good luck with the fail to comply.agtlaw does this for a living.
He is giving you free advice and is someone who knows what he is talking about.
I would strongly recommend taking it!!
agtlaw said:
You should deal with this by post.
- Plead guilty to speeding.
- Plead not guilty to failing to nominate.
In the mitigating circumstances section, outline your situation - or write a separate cover letter. Suggest that 3 points and a £100 fine is appropriate; see Magistrates Court Sentencing Guidelines, page 189, part 3.
In the unlikely event that your case is adjourned then get professional help.
Alternatively, if you want to avoid a conviction for both offences then get professional help.
- Plead guilty to speeding.
- Plead not guilty to failing to nominate.
In the mitigating circumstances section, outline your situation - or write a separate cover letter. Suggest that 3 points and a £100 fine is appropriate; see Magistrates Court Sentencing Guidelines, page 189, part 3.
In the unlikely event that your case is adjourned then get professional help.
Alternatively, if you want to avoid a conviction for both offences then get professional help.
South Wales, not as remote as you are going to be.
walm said:
jith said:
Let me remind you that we now have a privatised post office, an entity that is now motivated by profit rather than quality of public service. There is not a hope in hell that there is anything like enough integrity to rely on guaranteed service of citations using this system. It is totally unacceptable to prosecute on the assumption that service has been satisfied.
RMG is heavily regulated and has the Universal Service Obligation which means the quality of public service is extremely important to them.IIRC Ofcom can fine the crap out of them if standards drop (so it is still part of the profit incentive).
Nevertheless, you are right.
It's not as if there were this free method for sending mail at the speed of light where you can receive an instant read-receipt.
If only someone called Tim could invent such a thing.
Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
onomatopoeia said:
It was someone called Ray. Tim invented something else.
Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
I know, I was being a little facetious.Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
Nevertheless it seems painfully obvious to me that all this rubbish about whether or not the mail is reliable just highlights how ridiculous it is that the government doesn't use email in these cases.
walm said:
onomatopoeia said:
It was someone called Ray. Tim invented something else.
Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
I know, I was being a little facetious.Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
Nevertheless it seems painfully obvious to me that all this rubbish about whether or not the mail is reliable just highlights how ridiculous it is that the government doesn't use email in these cases.
J
jith said:
walm said:
onomatopoeia said:
It was someone called Ray. Tim invented something else.
Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
I know, I was being a little facetious.Read receipts are completely unreliable outside exchange based systems btw.
Nevertheless it seems painfully obvious to me that all this rubbish about whether or not the mail is reliable just highlights how ridiculous it is that the government doesn't use email in these cases.
I know, I know.
But broadband penetration is close to 90% now and it would be as simple as adding a field to the V5 (email address as well as home address) and slowly transitioning the DVLA in the right direction!
Such that when the Bibs call up DVLA for registered keeper details they send the RK an email if one is listed.
bmw535i said:
And what would happen if people didn't fill it in?
You would send them regular mail as usual.As above, I do know that not everyone with a car has an email address!
And even if my suggestion was adopted - it's going to take every car on the road getting sold once to work.
Although maybe you could adopt it unilaterally with the VED payment somehow...
walm said:
You would send them regular mail as usual.
As above, I do know that not everyone with a car has an email address!
And even if my suggestion was adopted - it's going to take every car on the road getting sold once to work.
Although maybe you could adopt it unilaterally with the VED payment somehow...
You'd be back to square one again though. I sympathise with the OP, I know from experience how difficult it is to receive mail in his line of work. It can take weeks for internal mail to get from one side of camp to the other, let alone try and find a soldier who is deployed on course for several weeks.As above, I do know that not everyone with a car has an email address!
And even if my suggestion was adopted - it's going to take every car on the road getting sold once to work.
Although maybe you could adopt it unilaterally with the VED payment somehow...
You don't get mail brought to your shell scrape whilst dug in on a training area - neither do you have access to email in this scenario.
bmw535i said:
You'd be back to square one again though. I sympathise with the OP, I know from experience how difficult it is to receive mail in his line of work. It can take weeks for internal mail to get from one side of camp to the other, let alone try and find a soldier who is deployed on course for several weeks.
You don't get mail brought to your shell scrape whilst dug in on a training area - neither do you have access to email in this scenario.
Fair enough, but wouldn't you rather have it sent to your email?You don't get mail brought to your shell scrape whilst dug in on a training area - neither do you have access to email in this scenario.
Right now that isn't even an option.
walm said:
Fair enough, but wouldn't you rather have it sent to your email?
Right now that isn't even an option.
I can see benefits to it. Perhaps it will happen one day. Insurance companies tend to have gone that way recently. I've not had a hard copy of my insurance certificate for several years now. Strangely they continue to say it's an offence not to return it if the insurance policy is cancelled, but anyway, I'm digressing.Right now that isn't even an option.
No plan survives the first contact.
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