Fracking law in Scotland.

[vanordinaire]

Just a (slightly topical) question from a layman's point of view to any Scottish Legal experts out there .
Since the abolition of the feudal system in Scotland, my understanding (may be completely wrong) is that no-one has any feudal rights to my land. I think this includes extraction of minerals beneath my property.
If this is right, would it preclude any fracking activity which may extract gas from beneath my land (even if the 'minehead' is located outwith my boundaries?

[TooMany2cvs]

IANA(S)L.

But this seems to suggest that oil and gas rights are separate, and held in the public interest.
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2014/05/2852/2981...

[vanordinaire]

TooMany2cvs said:

IANA(S)L.

But this seems to suggest that oil and gas rights are separate, and held in the public interest.
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2014/05/2852/2981...

Thanks for that, I had had a look but couldn't find these exceptions. There still might be an issue if the gas which, in fracking, has to be hydraulically forced out from the shale is not considered as "any mineral oil or relative hydrocarbon and natural gas existing in its natural condition in strata" .

[Mr GrimNasty]

Dream on! If government policy is (or changes) to exploit fracking, any actual impediments (like some people tried using trespass) will simply be swept aside by law changes anyway.

Fracking is exceptionally low risk/impact compared to anything else and has the potential to 'save' Scotland economically.

Whatever politicians are saving out loud at the moment, the reality is fracking is coming to the whole of the UK.

[98elise]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Dream on! If government policy is (or changes) to exploit fracking, any actual impediments (like some people tried using trespass) will simply be swept aside by law changes anyway.

Fracking is exceptionally low risk/impact compared to anything else and has the potential to 'save' Scotland economically.

Whatever politicians are saving out loud at the moment, the reality is fracking is coming to the whole of the UK.

This.

[TooMany2cvs]

Mr GrimNasty said:

Whatever politicians are saving out loud at the moment, the reality is fracking is coming to the whole of the UK.

Apart from the subtle detail that no matter what you do to massive swathes of the country, there ain't no oil or gas to get out.

[jshell]

vanordinaire said:

gas which, in fracking, has to be hydraulically forced out from the shale

I strongly suggest that you do some research into what exactly Frac'ing is, as you demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding with that statement...a position most, if not all opponents to frac'ing share. If the feckwits that opposed it took some time to understand it, perhaps they would feck off and make themselves actually useful to society somewhere, but I doubt it.

[vanordinaire]

jshell said:

vanordinaire said:

gas which, in fracking, has to be hydraulically forced out from the shale

I strongly suggest that you do some research into what exactly Frac'ing is, as you demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding with that statement...a position most, if not all opponents to frac'ing share. If the feckwits that opposed it took some time to understand it, perhaps they would feck off and make themselves actually useful to society somewhere, but I doubt it.

Wooooooh! Get you! Someone got out of bed on the wrong side today.
I didn't start this thread as an argument against fracking, I'm only looking at possible legal issues which might affect future decisions by myself and others.
I have a reasonable understanding of what fracking is, just used simple terms for my purposes, most people do that who don't want to introduce technical complexities into a simple argument.
I'm not entirely opposed to fracking, but in some areas (such as where I live and work)the water which is trapped in the rock beneath us is far more important to us than the hydrocarbons which are present too and with all due respect to the 'experts', they cannot tell exactly where the artificially introduced fractures will occur and what effect they will have on ground water supplies.
Society as we know it may or may not survive if we run out of underground sourced hydrocarbons, but I know for a fact that it will not survive if we run out of food. I have respect for the the people who work in the petrochemicals industry(I did myself some time ago), but I don't think they are more useful to society than those who produce our food (as I do now). I've no intention of 'fecking' off somewhere else, but feel free to do your fracking there instead.

[HD Adam]

vanordinaire said:

jshell said:

vanordinaire said:

gas which, in fracking, has to be hydraulically forced out from the shale

I strongly suggest that you do some research into what exactly Frac'ing is, as you demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding with that statement...a position most, if not all opponents to frac'ing share. If the feckwits that opposed it took some time to understand it, perhaps they would feck off and make themselves actually useful to society somewhere, but I doubt it.

Wooooooh! Get you! Someone got out of bed on the wrong side today.
I didn't start this thread as an argument against fracking, I'm only looking at possible legal issues which might affect future decisions by myself and others.
I have a reasonable understanding of what fracking is, just used simple terms for my purposes, most people do that who don't want to introduce technical complexities into a simple argument.
I'm not entirely opposed to fracking, but in some areas (such as where I live and work)the water which is trapped in the rock beneath us is far more important to us than the hydrocarbons which are present too and with all due respect to the 'experts', they cannot tell exactly where the artificially introduced fractures will occur and what effect they will have on ground water supplies.
Society as we know it may or may not survive if we run out of underground sourced hydrocarbons, but I know for a fact that it will not survive if we run out of food. I have respect for the the people who work in the petrochemicals industry(I did myself some time ago), but I don't think they are more useful to society than those who produce our food (as I do now). I've no intention of 'fecking' off somewhere else, but feel free to do your fracking there instead.

Utter rubbish.

There is no ground water held in the Shale which is thousands of feet deep.

The fractures don't travel that far, certainly not beyond the shale into the cap rock above and if you could stretch a fracture from what is virtually the surface (where ground water is) to the shale, there would be no need to drill a well in the first place.

There has been fracking in the UK at Wytch Farm in Dorset for about the last 30 years. Ade Tuneo works down there in the industry, perhaps he will chip in.

How many earthquakes, poisoned rivers, dead animals, ruined villages and exploding kitchen taps have you heard about down there because I'd expect the media & bunny huggers to be all over it if anything had happened.

Drilling & fracking has it's risks but if they are mitigated and the industry is properly regulated (as it is in the UK) then there is not a problem.

[jshell]

vanordinaire said:

jshell said:

vanordinaire said:

gas which, in fracking, has to be hydraulically forced out from the shale

I strongly suggest that you do some research into what exactly Frac'ing is, as you demonstrate a woeful lack of understanding with that statement...a position most, if not all opponents to frac'ing share. If the feckwits that opposed it took some time to understand it, perhaps they would feck off and make themselves actually useful to society somewhere, but I doubt it.

Wooooooh! Get you! Someone got out of bed on the wrong side today.
I didn't start this thread as an argument against fracking, I'm only looking at possible legal issues which might affect future decisions by myself and others.
I have a reasonable understanding of what fracking is, just used simple terms for my purposes, most people do that who don't want to introduce technical complexities into a simple argument.
I'm not entirely opposed to fracking, but in some areas (such as where I live and work)the water which is trapped in the rock beneath us is far more important to us than the hydrocarbons which are present too and with all due respect to the 'experts', they cannot tell exactly where the artificially introduced fractures will occur and what effect they will have on ground water supplies.
Society as we know it may or may not survive if we run out of underground sourced hydrocarbons, but I know for a fact that it will not survive if we run out of food. I have respect for the the people who work in the petrochemicals industry(I did myself some time ago), but I don't think they are more useful to society than those who produce our food (as I do now). I've no intention of 'fecking' off somewhere else, but feel free to do your fracking there instead.

Explain your understanding of it then...

I may have over-reacted slightly to your post, but I'm sick of the endless spurious shyte that's spewed up about the subject by those least familiar with it.

[Scotty2]

He will be along shortly....

I am thinking of starting and "Open Cast Gas Mine" to capture all the stored gas...

[jshell]

Scotty2 said:

He will be along shortly....

I am thinking of starting and "Open Cast Gas Mine" to capture all the stored gas...

Well, we can 'mine' for hydrates... There's more gas there, in place, than all of the hydrocarbons already produced by man.

Trifle risky though!

[vanordinaire]

jshell said:

Explain your understanding of it then...

I may have over-reacted slightly to your post, but I'm sick of the endless spurious shyte that's spewed up about the subject by those least familiar with it.

Thanks for responding in a reasonable way to my overenthusiastic post.

I'm not going to explain my understanding of fracking, I could easily spend half an hour googling to ensure my 'average' understanding of fracking is as good as I think it is then you would come back with your expert knowledge and pick it to bits and this thread would become another argument on the pro and cons of fracking. There is at least one other thread on here which does that very well already.

I raised this on the SP&L section of the forum because I felt there may be scope for a discussion into the legal aspects of fracking in Scotland and whether there might be a route for landowners to have some say in what goes on beneath them.

I share your concerns about energy supplies and realise that a properly controlled industry may go a long way to providing us with a few more decades worth of hydrocarbons, just don't like being ridden roughshod over by multinationals and arms length politicians who don't have the same commitment to my country that I do.

I'd like to think I could retain some control on what happens beneath my feet and was hoping that there might be some aspects of the law that could help me in this.

[TooMany2cvs]

vanordinaire said:

I'd like to think I could retain some control on what happens beneath my feet and was hoping that there might be some aspects of the law that could help me in this.

I think if you're relying on defining the gas/oil as not being in it's "natural condition", you're probably on a loser from the get-go. But the main question is surely how much time, blood pressure and (especially) money you want to chew through in legal action before admitting the inevitable?

[jshell]

vanordinaire said:

jshell said:

Explain your understanding of it then...

I may have over-reacted slightly to your post, but I'm sick of the endless spurious shyte that's spewed up about the subject by those least familiar with it.

Thanks for responding in a reasonable way to my overenthusiastic post.

I'm not going to explain my understanding of fracking, I could easily spend half an hour googling to ensure my 'average' understanding of fracking is as good as I think it is then you would come back with your expert knowledge and pick it to bits and this thread would become another argument on the pro and cons of fracking. There is at least one other thread on here which does that very well already.

I raised this on the SP&L section of the forum because I felt there may be scope for a discussion into the legal aspects of fracking in Scotland and whether there might be a route for landowners to have some say in what goes on beneath them.

I share your concerns about energy supplies and realise that a properly controlled industry may go a long way to providing us with a few more decades worth of hydrocarbons, just don't like being ridden roughshod over by multinationals and arms length politicians who don't have the same commitment to my country that I do.

I'd like to think I could retain some control on what happens beneath my feet and was hoping that there might be some aspects of the law that could help me in this.

Knowing the legislation involved in controlling drilling ops, especially post-Macondo, there is no 'being ridden roughshod over by multinationals'. The repercussions for getting it wrong are quick and severe.

There have been more than 1 million wells in the US alone that have had their pay-zone cracked open to make the flow of product easier and quicker, with the addition of some sand and biocide to protect the water table.

We have done it thousands of times in the UK, mostly offshore though. It's proven, it's safe, it's one of many enhanced recovery methods that are used.

I'd be happy for it to take place under my own house.

[Skyrat]

To the OP, I know for a fact my deeds and related documents state that I have no rights to the minerals underneath my house. The house was built in the late 90s.

[hidetheelephants]

You're well out of luck; even if you retained mineral rights to your land certain mineral rights(coal, gas, oil, silver and gold) are retained by the crown in the UK. AIUI most domestic deeds do not retain mineral rights.

[Pete54]

All petroleum rights are vested in the crown - courtesy of the 1934 Petroleum Act which covers Great Britain. So you have no legal leg to stand on.

As for all the rest - I tend to agree, 30 seconds goggling would give you your answer so this thread looks more like the nonsense opposition to fracking which can only be characterised by complete and utter ignorance.