Overtaking safely......or not?
Discussion
The scene. A car at rolling road block speed - 48 in a 60. A short section of straight road which is clear. One of the few. To pass at a speed not exceeding 60, not possible. To safely pass at 70+ easy.
What does the law say. Don't exceed the posted speed limit. Options. 1. Stay behind the rolling road block
2. Pass not exceeding nsl. Dangerous. 3. Take a chance that you won't get nabbed by the plod. And if you do see the van as you are about to complete the overtake, jam on the brakes and see if the guy you have overtaken is as quick on his.
What does the law say. Don't exceed the posted speed limit. Options. 1. Stay behind the rolling road block
2. Pass not exceeding nsl. Dangerous. 3. Take a chance that you won't get nabbed by the plod. And if you do see the van as you are about to complete the overtake, jam on the brakes and see if the guy you have overtaken is as quick on his.Actually had something like this on the drive to the office this morning.
60 mph road, HGV (foreign) doing between 45-50 mph.
Ultimately the "safest" and easier answer is to simply sit there and just follow...at the end of the day most of the trucks in a 60 mph in England & Wales will be doing 50 mph. In someways I do think it has worked increasing them from 40 mph, but for those that are "desperate" to have the extra 10 mph they would go for it and exceed the 60 mph anyway.
60 mph road, HGV (foreign) doing between 45-50 mph.
Ultimately the "safest" and easier answer is to simply sit there and just follow...at the end of the day most of the trucks in a 60 mph in England & Wales will be doing 50 mph. In someways I do think it has worked increasing them from 40 mph, but for those that are "desperate" to have the extra 10 mph they would go for it and exceed the 60 mph anyway.
Zed 44 said:
The scene. A car at rolling road block speed - 48 in a 60. A short section of straight road which is clear. One of the few. To pass at a speed not exceeding 60, not possible. To safely pass at 70+ easy.
I'd say if a 17% increase in speed is the difference between the overtake being possible or completely impossible the overtake is a bit marginal in the first place. Zed 44 said:
The scene. A car at rolling road block speed - 48 in a 60. A short section of straight road which is clear. One of the few. To pass at a speed not exceeding 60, not possible. To safely pass at 70+ easy.
What does the law say. Don't exceed the posted speed limit. Options. 1. Stay behind the rolling road block 2. Pass not exceeding nsl. Dangerous. 3. Take a chance that you won't get nabbed by the plod. And if you do see the van as you are about to complete the overtake, jam on the brakes and see if the guy you have overtaken is as quick on his.
If you can't see that parked van before pulling out to overtake, then your sightlines aren't good enough. What if that parked van was a BT van, with a driver that's about to pull out without looking properly?What does the law say. Don't exceed the posted speed limit. Options. 1. Stay behind the rolling road block
2. Pass not exceeding nsl. Dangerous. 3. Take a chance that you won't get nabbed by the plod. And if you do see the van as you are about to complete the overtake, jam on the brakes and see if the guy you have overtaken is as quick on his.HustleRussell said:
Zed 44 said:
The scene. A car at rolling road block speed - 48 in a 60. A short section of straight road which is clear. One of the few. To pass at a speed not exceeding 60, not possible. To safely pass at 70+ easy.
I'd say if a 17% increase in speed is the difference between the overtake being possible or completely impossible the overtake is a bit marginal in the first place. The best ones of course are like the one I had the other day when I was stuck behind a daft cow in a BMW 4X4 who was pottering along at 35 in a straight NSL, not to worry as I knew passing lanes were frequent. Of course when we got to one and I began to overtake she floored it so by the time I was past her I may have been over the limit. There was a cacophany of horn blasting and light flashing when I'd past her to boot.
Presumably in her mind I'd breached her own personal highway code in which people shouldn't overtake her.
Edited by Timmy40 on Thursday 26th May 15:42
Do you want the legal answer or practical answer?
Legal answer will definitely be you are not allowed to exceed the speed limit to overtake.
Practical answer: I did my IAM advanced bike test last year with a serving police motorcyclist. He said that I had to obey speed limits (he wasn't going to quibble about being a little bit over) except when it came to overtaking where he wanted me to get past quickly so we would not be checking then. Of course, if you stick to the limits the opportunities (or need) to overtake are much rarer and I didn't have a chance to do an overtake in the hour we were riding. That has to be a personal best of sorts (in terms of not overtaking!)
Legal answer will definitely be you are not allowed to exceed the speed limit to overtake.
Practical answer: I did my IAM advanced bike test last year with a serving police motorcyclist. He said that I had to obey speed limits (he wasn't going to quibble about being a little bit over) except when it came to overtaking where he wanted me to get past quickly so we would not be checking then. Of course, if you stick to the limits the opportunities (or need) to overtake are much rarer and I didn't have a chance to do an overtake in the hour we were riding. That has to be a personal best of sorts (in terms of not overtaking!)
The common sense reply is surely that it is better to execute the overtake as quickly as possible, to spend the minimum amount of time on the opposite carriageway.
Even if there is a long enough space to carry out the overtake more slowly, doing it quickly may make it possible to other vehicles to also pass the slower vehicle, so by not getting on with the overtake you are being selfish by depriving others of the chance to also get past.
And as to the argument, the slow vehicle is only going 10mph slower so why not just sit behind it; well often enough this may be on a bendy road where the dawdler is going even slower around the bends, and this may be a rare opportunity to pass safely. Take it.
Even if there is a long enough space to carry out the overtake more slowly, doing it quickly may make it possible to other vehicles to also pass the slower vehicle, so by not getting on with the overtake you are being selfish by depriving others of the chance to also get past.
And as to the argument, the slow vehicle is only going 10mph slower so why not just sit behind it; well often enough this may be on a bendy road where the dawdler is going even slower around the bends, and this may be a rare opportunity to pass safely. Take it.
BrumBrumDuffy said:
The common sense reply is surely that it is better to execute the overtake as quickly as possible, to spend the minimum amount of time on the opposite carriageway.
Even if there is a long enough space to carry out the overtake more slowly, doing it quickly may make it possible to other vehicles to also pass the slower vehicle, so by not getting on with the overtake you are being selfish by depriving others of the chance to also get past.
And as to the argument, the slow vehicle is only going 10mph slower so why not just sit behind it; well often enough this may be on a bendy road where the dawdler is going even slower around the bends, and this may be a rare opportunity to pass safely. Take it.
I agree with this.Even if there is a long enough space to carry out the overtake more slowly, doing it quickly may make it possible to other vehicles to also pass the slower vehicle, so by not getting on with the overtake you are being selfish by depriving others of the chance to also get past.
And as to the argument, the slow vehicle is only going 10mph slower so why not just sit behind it; well often enough this may be on a bendy road where the dawdler is going even slower around the bends, and this may be a rare opportunity to pass safely. Take it.
With the roads around here you could be stuck behind a lorry for miles before the next opportunity arises. And once it gets to the bendy bits it could be down to 20-30mph. (same goes for caravans, tourists...)
I get any overtake done as quickly as possible once i have established that it is safe to actually perform the manoeuvre. Minimises time exposed to danger, and I can't see any downsides apart the remote possibility of being speed-gunned.
Esceptico said:
Do you want the legal answer or practical answer?
Legal answer will definitely be you are not allowed to exceed the speed limit to overtake.
Practical answer: I did my IAM advanced bike test last year with a serving police motorcyclist. He said that I had to obey speed limits (he wasn't going to quibble about being a little bit over) except when it came to overtaking where he wanted me to get past quickly so we would not be checking then. Of course, if you stick to the limits the opportunities (or need) to overtake are much rarer and I didn't have a chance to do an overtake in the hour we were riding. That has to be a personal best of sorts (in terms of not overtaking!)
This is my experience. No service policeman can be quoted recommending speeding, but they advice I got was that during an overtake he would expect both of us to looking at the road not the speedo.Legal answer will definitely be you are not allowed to exceed the speed limit to overtake.
Practical answer: I did my IAM advanced bike test last year with a serving police motorcyclist. He said that I had to obey speed limits (he wasn't going to quibble about being a little bit over) except when it came to overtaking where he wanted me to get past quickly so we would not be checking then. Of course, if you stick to the limits the opportunities (or need) to overtake are much rarer and I didn't have a chance to do an overtake in the hour we were riding. That has to be a personal best of sorts (in terms of not overtaking!)
bare in mind that 2 wheeled police are generally bike enthusiasts and tend to have a more practical attitude than some of their 4 wheeled colleges. I know who I'd rather be stopped by.
Attitude from car examiners is the same. Use the full capability of the vehicle in order to minimize time exposed to danger.
Not all overtakes require anything like full beans though. I think using appropriate acceleration is more important. Pick a point ahead at which you want to be back on your own side (before a junction with a minor road for example), and use the correct volume of welly to achieve that. If you indiscriminately apply max beans on every overtake just because a ex-policeman once said it was ok to look away from the speedo for a moment, I think that might be missing the point.
What they really mean is, "If you kill me to death in a head-on collision because you were too scared to go over NSL, I shall be quite annoyed!"
Not all overtakes require anything like full beans though. I think using appropriate acceleration is more important. Pick a point ahead at which you want to be back on your own side (before a junction with a minor road for example), and use the correct volume of welly to achieve that. If you indiscriminately apply max beans on every overtake just because a ex-policeman once said it was ok to look away from the speedo for a moment, I think that might be missing the point.
What they really mean is, "If you kill me to death in a head-on collision because you were too scared to go over NSL, I shall be quite annoyed!"
I also agree that the safest overtake is the one that has you spending the least amount of time on the wrong side of the road but technically you're not allowed to exceed the speed limit (even temporarily) and therefore doing so during the course of an overtaking manoeuvre means a potential conviction if you're caught. What a traffic officer may think in those circumstances is one thing but how many cameras and camera vans do you see placed strategically where the overtaking opportunities are? Could be just a coincidence but somehow I think it's quite deliberate because the authorities know that's where there's the most chance of catching people for speeding!
Slightly off topic but one of the things I find really irritating is the increasing reluctance for people who don't want to overtake to leave gaps for those that do. The net result is that unless you're prepared to just sit in a queue you sometimes have to overtake several cars at once and to achieve that safely often means straying more than just a few mph over the speed limit....
Slightly off topic but one of the things I find really irritating is the increasing reluctance for people who don't want to overtake to leave gaps for those that do. The net result is that unless you're prepared to just sit in a queue you sometimes have to overtake several cars at once and to achieve that safely often means straying more than just a few mph over the speed limit....
Mr GrimNasty said:
No, the safest overtake is the one you don't make.
Mumsnet is over there---------> 
There are plenty of times where it's safer to overtake than stay behind a pottering fool whilst angry traffic builds up behind you...
Some roads (Hereford to Worcester) are quite enjoyable when driven around the limit but as there's only 2 or 3 genuine passing places for nearly 20 miles, you have to gauge risk/reward. There's quite a few stretches to pass if you can see/plan but you're f
ked if there's an HGV and 5-15 cars dawdling!Thankfully, my commute involves an aircraft so traffic isn't a worry now...
But, (in the words of Ferris Beuller) "if you have the means", I highly recommend an M3 for easy, quick and safe overtakes!
Gallen said:
An then they flash......
Had one of those today - spend 10 miles following them through twisty stuff at 35-40mph. We get to a straight and they put their foot down. I just about made the overtake before my sight lines disappeared, but got the flashing, horn blasting etc., from the driver I'd overtaken.Of course, after leaving them behind through the next few miles of bends, I found them right on my bumper a mile or so into a 30mph zone.
Edited by Trabi601 on Thursday 26th May 22:41
HustleRussell said:
Zed 44 said:
The scene. A car at rolling road block speed - 48 in a 60. A short section of straight road which is clear. One of the few. To pass at a speed not exceeding 60, not possible. To safely pass at 70+ easy.
I'd say if a 17% increase in speed is the difference between the overtake being possible or completely impossible the overtake is a bit marginal in the first place. Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff