Driving offence?
Discussion
Hi, a bit of background first and thank you to anybody who takes the time to read this through. It might get confusing
A friend at work has been stopped by the Police and charged with two driving offences. She is Romanian and has a full Romanian driving licence, she's been in the UK for roughly two years.
She does'nt speak brilliant English but from what I can gather from talking to her, and she's also given me the letter from the Police, she applied for a UK provisional licence some time last year which is still valid.
I think she applied for the UK provisional licence because she was'nt sure if she was legally allowed to drive on just the Romanian licence. I had a look online earlier and found some conflicting results, one site said that you should change your EU licence for a UK licence after twelve months.
Now to the offences.
1. Using a motor vehicle on a road/public place without third party insurance
2. Drive a motor vehicle otherwise than in accordance with a licence - endorsable offence
A photocopy of the officers report is included and states "The driver gave us a Romanian licence to get details off. On checking the PNC she was also showing a valid UK Provisional licence, due to this she was issued with a TOR for both offences"
She thought she was on a friend's Trader's policy with regards to the insurance, I think that one she'll just have to accept. But, I think that the reason the Police pulled her for not having the correct licence to drive with is because of this valid UK Provisional she had applied for. She was'nt being supervised or displaying L plates. So although she had a Romanian licence the UKP has kind of made that irrelevant?
I did suggest to her ringing the DVLA and asking about the licence but I don't think she would understand them too well.
Opinions please, I'm just kind of reading between the lines, I might be wrong but I think the fact she had a UKP and was'nt being supervised is where the offence has came from. I certainly did'nt know that it would trump having a full licence in another EU country once you've applied for it, the full licence has basically been wiped out. She drives to work everyday so that's still probably not legal, I guess she should cancel the UKP
Is it worth saying not guilty to the licence offence and explaining that she did'nt realise she has to abide by UKP licence rules even though she had a full Romanian licence?
Thanks
A friend at work has been stopped by the Police and charged with two driving offences. She is Romanian and has a full Romanian driving licence, she's been in the UK for roughly two years.
She does'nt speak brilliant English but from what I can gather from talking to her, and she's also given me the letter from the Police, she applied for a UK provisional licence some time last year which is still valid.
I think she applied for the UK provisional licence because she was'nt sure if she was legally allowed to drive on just the Romanian licence. I had a look online earlier and found some conflicting results, one site said that you should change your EU licence for a UK licence after twelve months.
Now to the offences.
1. Using a motor vehicle on a road/public place without third party insurance
2. Drive a motor vehicle otherwise than in accordance with a licence - endorsable offence
A photocopy of the officers report is included and states "The driver gave us a Romanian licence to get details off. On checking the PNC she was also showing a valid UK Provisional licence, due to this she was issued with a TOR for both offences"
She thought she was on a friend's Trader's policy with regards to the insurance, I think that one she'll just have to accept. But, I think that the reason the Police pulled her for not having the correct licence to drive with is because of this valid UK Provisional she had applied for. She was'nt being supervised or displaying L plates. So although she had a Romanian licence the UKP has kind of made that irrelevant?
I did suggest to her ringing the DVLA and asking about the licence but I don't think she would understand them too well.
Opinions please, I'm just kind of reading between the lines, I might be wrong but I think the fact she had a UKP and was'nt being supervised is where the offence has came from. I certainly did'nt know that it would trump having a full licence in another EU country once you've applied for it, the full licence has basically been wiped out. She drives to work everyday so that's still probably not legal, I guess she should cancel the UKP
Is it worth saying not guilty to the licence offence and explaining that she did'nt realise she has to abide by UKP licence rules even though she had a full Romanian licence?
Thanks
A RO full license is valid in the UK and you don't need to exchange it. Only non EU ones fall under the 12mth rules.
Perhaps being tugged by the BiB means she will invest a few minutes to look into the rules in the UK before driving on the roads.
1886 said:
'She thought she was on a friend's Trader's policy with regards to the insurance'
The abuse of open policies just demonstrates indifference to the rules. I have no sympathy for those that place selfish needs above something so fundamentally important. Perhaps being tugged by the BiB means she will invest a few minutes to look into the rules in the UK before driving on the roads.
She sounds exactly like my neighbour.
The best you can do is offer friendly advice but please don't get involved in this. You'll end up doing all the admin and making calls and trying to fix it for her and loosing hours of your time.
I was involved in my neighbours struggles by the landlord of her flat who is a acquaintance of mine and the management director of the flats where I live. As I'm her friendly neighbourhood car guy obviously she knocked on my door and asked for my help.
Trying to explain to a Romanian in broken english that she doesn't have tax on her car she just bought and that she needs to update her insurance for the new registration was an awful experience and in the end I just had to let her get in and drive away. No idea if she's been stopped yet.
The last conversation we had she was told that she couldn't cancel her insurance over to the new car for 40 days or something.
Be helpful by all means but you're probably better off just giving her the numbers of people to call and letting her get on with it.
The best you can do is offer friendly advice but please don't get involved in this. You'll end up doing all the admin and making calls and trying to fix it for her and loosing hours of your time.
I was involved in my neighbours struggles by the landlord of her flat who is a acquaintance of mine and the management director of the flats where I live. As I'm her friendly neighbourhood car guy obviously she knocked on my door and asked for my help.
Trying to explain to a Romanian in broken english that she doesn't have tax on her car she just bought and that she needs to update her insurance for the new registration was an awful experience and in the end I just had to let her get in and drive away. No idea if she's been stopped yet.
The last conversation we had she was told that she couldn't cancel her insurance over to the new car for 40 days or something.
Be helpful by all means but you're probably better off just giving her the numbers of people to call and letting her get on with it.
1886 said:
Is it worth saying not guilty to the licence offence and explaining that she did'nt realise she has to abide by UKP licence rules even though she had a full Romanian licence?
My advice (I am not a lawyer)- Direct her to Citizens Advice, you don't want her to get the wrong advice from you
- It costs, but she can talk to the DVLA with a translator on the line (at her cost): https://www.gov.uk/government/news/changes-to-dvla...
Edit to clear up confusion and inaccuracy that I added.
Edited by Vaud on Friday 27th May 08:43
Vaud, I followed the DVLA link you posted and got this "You can drive in Great Britain on your full, valid driving licence until you’re 70, or for 3 years after becoming resident in Great Britain, whichever is longer"
Romania is in the EU, so no need to swap to a UK licence until 70, no need to apply for a provisional.
Romania is in the EU, so no need to swap to a UK licence until 70, no need to apply for a provisional.
Clipper22 said:
Vaud, I followed the DVLA link you posted and got this "You can drive in Great Britain on your full, valid driving licence until you’re 70, or for 3 years after becoming resident in Great Britain, whichever is longer"
Romania is in the EU, so no need to swap to a UK licence until 70, no need to apply for a provisional.
Ah yes, I skim read.Romania is in the EU, so no need to swap to a UK licence until 70, no need to apply for a provisional.
I wonder if the application for a provisional has countered that and confused the process.
Guilty to offence 1)
Perhaps not guilty to offence 2) If she passed her Romanian Test after Romania joined the European Union then her licence is valid in the UK. If she passed it before Romania joined the EU then it is not valid in the UK. Given she has a UK provisional then I suspect the latter is true.
Perhaps not guilty to offence 2) If she passed her Romanian Test after Romania joined the European Union then her licence is valid in the UK. If she passed it before Romania joined the EU then it is not valid in the UK. Given she has a UK provisional then I suspect the latter is true.
Seems you could have been right anyway. Gov says EU licence not Romanian licence and we don't know which it is. I have an old licence, do modern UK licences say EU on them?Romanian licence IS an EU licence. When they joined the EU, they get the same benefits as existing members, one of which was being able to drive in other EU countries up until 70.
If I had stopped her, I would have conducted a DL check, which would have shown the UK provisional. When she produced the Romanian licence, that technically trumps the UK one.
In the circs of the OP, I would have issued the ticket for both as well - the licence part can be dropped after checks with Romania to ensure it is still valid.
If I had stopped her, I would have conducted a DL check, which would have shown the UK provisional. When she produced the Romanian licence, that technically trumps the UK one.
In the circs of the OP, I would have issued the ticket for both as well - the licence part can be dropped after checks with Romania to ensure it is still valid.
jshell said:
1886 said:
'She thought she was on a friend's Trader's policy with regards to the insurance'
I think the licence issue will get sorted, but hope she gets done properly if the use of the trader's policy is fraudulent...J
jith said:
jshell said:
1886 said:
'She thought she was on a friend's Trader's policy with regards to the insurance'
I think the licence issue will get sorted, but hope she gets done properly if the use of the trader's policy is fraudulent...J
My other half is Greek. we looked into the issue of the driving licence and were told by the DVLA that she had to transfer her Greek licence to a u.k. licence within 12 months of being in the u.k. after the 12 month limit a u.k. driving test would need to be taken. She applied, sent off her original and received back a full uk photocard version.
king English?!!! 
evilmunkey said:
My other half is Greek. we looked into the issue of the driving licence and were told by the DVLA that she had to transfer her Greek licence to a u.k. licence within 12 months of being in the u.k. after the 12 month limit a u.k. driving test would need to be taken. She applied, sent off her original and received back a full uk photocard version.
Don't expect a bod and DVLA to give you correct advice. An EU licence holder living in the UK does not have to change their licence to a UK licence until they are 70. She could have driven on her Greek licence until then. The can change to a UK one if they wish, and as in your other half's case, will get a full UK licence without taking a testSince 26th March 2015, it's an offence to hold more than one community licence. There's a defence if the licence was issued before the state became an EU member state - 1.1.2007 in the case of Romania.
Likely best strategy is guilty to no insurance, not guilty to the licence offence. Unlikely that the prosecuting authority will continue with the licence matter.
Even if guilty pleas are entered to both offences then you may anticipate no separate penalty for the licence matter.
No insurance carries a ban from driving or 6-8 points, and an unlimited fine (but based on income).
A fixed penalty would have been £300 and 6 points.
Likely best strategy is guilty to no insurance, not guilty to the licence offence. Unlikely that the prosecuting authority will continue with the licence matter.
Even if guilty pleas are entered to both offences then you may anticipate no separate penalty for the licence matter.
No insurance carries a ban from driving or 6-8 points, and an unlimited fine (but based on income).
A fixed penalty would have been £300 and 6 points.
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