Police detain 11 year of girl with a neurological disability
Discussion
Bigends said:
Or..as happened yesterday - they assessed a patient, calmed things down - decided sectioning wasnt applicable and everyone went on their way. Theyre on hand to give expert, on the spot advice - not to section - surely better than untrained cops attending alone
Of course its better but how many nurses are there? I heard one per shift.Lets not forget this girl was undiagnosed anyway. What was the content of the log
"My daughters kicking off"
Or
"I think my daughter has mental health issues"
Two very different responses there....
Elroy Blue said:
Bigends said:
Or..as happened yesterday - they assessed a patient, calmed things down - decided sectioning wasnt applicable and everyone went on their way. Theyre on hand to give expert, on the spot advice - not to section - surely better than untrained cops attending alone
Did you see that on telly? Of course every mental health job is exactly the same and can be dealt with the same way. You know this because you were, apparently, 'in the job'. Our area has a mental health triage nurse to go to incidents. Unlike Bigends magical one if a person shows any signs of being agitated or under the influence then they won't go near them.
Quite often they will phone them and not bother going to the scene to deal face to face.
It's astonishing.
It's got to the point where if I am there then I will ask the nurse to sign my PNB to say that the person is not in need of immediate treatment and doesn't present a danger to themselves. You should see their faces when you ask them to do that.
After that, I've taken to leaving the person where they are. If a MH expert says they are fit then how can I possibly say any different?
In our area also we've taken to body worn camera filming every time we take a person under 136 for an assessment and filming the nurses responses to the circs being given. Funny how you get a much more professional response and service when they know they're being filmed.
Still waiting for David to tell us what to do? Think it might be a while...
Quite often they will phone them and not bother going to the scene to deal face to face.
It's astonishing.
It's got to the point where if I am there then I will ask the nurse to sign my PNB to say that the person is not in need of immediate treatment and doesn't present a danger to themselves. You should see their faces when you ask them to do that.
After that, I've taken to leaving the person where they are. If a MH expert says they are fit then how can I possibly say any different?
In our area also we've taken to body worn camera filming every time we take a person under 136 for an assessment and filming the nurses responses to the circs being given. Funny how you get a much more professional response and service when they know they're being filmed.
Still waiting for David to tell us what to do? Think it might be a while...
Greendubber said:
Bigends said:
Or..as happened yesterday - they assessed a patient, calmed things down - decided sectioning wasnt applicable and everyone went on their way. Theyre on hand to give expert, on the spot advice - not to section - surely better than untrained cops attending alone
Of course its better but how many nurses are there? I heard one per shift.Lets not forget this girl was undiagnosed anyway. What was the content of the log
"My daughters kicking off"
Or
"I think my daughter has mental health issues"
Two very different responses there....
Is it perhaps not very politically correct to suggest that, mental health issues or otherwise, she'll soon stop spitting / being violent if restrained long enough.
At 11 they perhaps need to learn the hard way. If it upsets the girl then maybe she won't do it again.
It's not like she was beaten up or tasered. She was just restrained.
At 11 they perhaps need to learn the hard way. If it upsets the girl then maybe she won't do it again.
It's not like she was beaten up or tasered. She was just restrained.
zarjaz1991 said:
Is it perhaps not very politically correct to suggest that, mental health issues or otherwise, she'll soon stop spitting / being violent if restrained long enough.
At 11 they perhaps need to learn the hard way. If it upsets the girl then maybe she won't do it again.
It's not like she was beaten up or tasered. She was just restrained.
How would you have dealt with it? At 11 they perhaps need to learn the hard way. If it upsets the girl then maybe she won't do it again.
It's not like she was beaten up or tasered. She was just restrained.
Cat
Cat said:
How would you have dealt with it?
Cat
Well I'm not a police officer, but from the details in the various reports, if I was a police officer, exactly as the police did.Cat
I'm struggling to see what they are supposed to have done wrong here. The police federation statement is absolutely spot on as far as I am concerned.
A child being dangerously violent needs restraining, as indeed does an adult.
Elroy Blue said:
Can you show me in that report where there is any mention of mental health services, the NHS, ambulance, social services. There isn't.
Errrm...."She was transferred to a local social services office before being placed in temporary foster care."
She was transferred to social services on 3 seperate occasions.
Elroy Blue said:
She was in the cells because her parents and every other 'specialist' washed their hands of her and expected the Police to magically solve the situation.
How do you know? Were you there? 
The police failed but I know you don't like to hear that. How do you explain them refusing the mother to opportunity to see get daughter more than once?
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
It's all here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
I look forward to your next defence of the police despite the fact it's clear they were acting unlawfully as per the IPCC findings.
I'm not usually the biggest supporter of plod, but I can't agree with the criticism of them in this instance unless there is something they failed to do.
Of course cells are not conducive to anybody with mental health issues. But if police are concerned they are a threat to themselves or others then they'll end up in a cell. Police surely can't be blamed if nobody from the public bodies who should then be responsible for them turn up to collect them?
Of course cells are not conducive to anybody with mental health issues. But if police are concerned they are a threat to themselves or others then they'll end up in a cell. Police surely can't be blamed if nobody from the public bodies who should then be responsible for them turn up to collect them?
rxe said:
One does wonder where the outraged mother was for this large number of hours.
If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
Does this answer your questions?If I had a mentally ill child who wasn't at home for the night, I'd be down the local cop shop sharpish. In fact, I probably would let the child out on its own if it was such a liability.
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
"Ms H, to call the police after her daughter ran away from her in Horsham town centre and refused to come back."
"Child H again became distressed while out with her mother and ran into a road. Ms H telephoned the police for assistance."
"She was arrested on suspicion of assaulting her mother"
"Child H ran away from her mother’s house and was found by police officers in Horsham town centre."
"Child H ran away from her mother in Horsham town centre."
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
No blame on the mothers part. The same cannot be said of the police though...
XDA said:
How do you know? Were you there?
The police failed but I know you don't like to hear that. How do you explain them refusing the mother to opportunity to see get daughter more than once?
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
It's all here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
I look forward to your next defence of the police despite the fact it's clear they were acting unlawfully as per the IPCC findings.
You, nor the 'journalists' don't know what's in the full report, because it hasn't been released. Only the 'outrageous' snippets. The police failed but I know you don't like to hear that. How do you explain them refusing the mother to opportunity to see get daughter more than once?
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
It's all here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
I look forward to your next defence of the police despite the fact it's clear they were acting unlawfully as per the IPCC findings.
It doesn't say when, or how long, it took social services or the mental health teams to respond. The fact she was in a cell tells you all you need to know about that.
The Mother (you know, the one who kept calling the Police) makes claims she couldn't see her daughter. The only people admitted to a custody block are legal representatives, lay visitors and appropriate adults. If she's the one making the complaint, she can't be an appropriate adult.
Perhaps if you got off the outrage bus and learnt some facts, you might learn something.
Elroy Blue said:
XDA said:
How do you know? Were you there?
The police failed but I know you don't like to hear that. How do you explain them refusing the mother to opportunity to see get daughter more than once?
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
It's all here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
I look forward to your next defence of the police despite the fact it's clear they were acting unlawfully as per the IPCC findings.
You, nor the 'journalists' don't know what's in the full report, because it hasn't been released. Only the 'outrageous' snippets. The police failed but I know you don't like to hear that. How do you explain them refusing the mother to opportunity to see get daughter more than once?
"Ms H also attacked the force for refusing to let her see her daughter in the police cells. I asked police officers again and again to let me see her but they kept telling me that I wasn’t needed."
It's all here: http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/08/ip...
I look forward to your next defence of the police despite the fact it's clear they were acting unlawfully as per the IPCC findings.
It doesn't say when, or how long, it took social services or the mental health teams to respond. The fact she was in a cell tells you all you need to know about that.
The Mother (you know, the one who kept calling the Police) makes claims she couldn't see her daughter. The only people admitted to a custody block are legal representatives, lay visitors and appropriate adults. If she's the one making the complaint, she can't be an appropriate adult.
Perhaps if you got off the outrage bus and learnt some facts, you might learn something.
davidball said:
jamesson,
Thank you for your informative post. Before I embark on a detailed response can you answer a question. Do police forces have on-call psychologists or psychiatrists who are contracted to respond to requests for assistance or do you have to rely on social services?
Well, you're not exactly going to go into a detailed response, are you? Simply because you are a fantasist. With no education of the subject nor any experience in dealing with mentally disturbed individuals.Thank you for your informative post. Before I embark on a detailed response can you answer a question. Do police forces have on-call psychologists or psychiatrists who are contracted to respond to requests for assistance or do you have to rely on social services?
Unfortunately for you, the generally accepted procedure when a disturbed person turns violent is;
Protect yourself. (Restrain them)
Protect them from themselves. (Keep them restrained)
Call for help.
If no help forthcoming, keep them protected. (Keep them restrained)
In practice, that's how it is.
You are the worst kind of troller. Narcissism at its best. I see you buddy, so perhaps best leave it there.
TVR1. BA (Hons) Crim Just/Behavoural Phsycology. (Yep, I did Stuff before the car trade)
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