Hidden knife fine - Portugal - likely outcome?

Hidden knife fine - Portugal - likely outcome?

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anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
Had an incident yesterday, wonder if anyone can give me any idea of likely punishment - mocking and VBRJ references expected.

I flew from Madeira to the UK last night. I got stopped at security in Madeira, in my wallet was a credit card multi tool type thing, with a small (20mm) sharpened edge, although it's only about as sharp as a tooth. Perfectly legal here, it's been in there for years and has flown with me to India, America, everywhere, no problem. The Portuguese police were called (machine guns and everything) and I was carted off to an interview room. Apparently these tools are illegal in Portugal, and as it is "disguised" as a credit card, it is a class A offensive weapon, considered the same as a gun. (at this point my bum was puckering).

They confiscated it, made me sign a load of paperwork in Portuguese, and then let me go. The paperwork mentions court but via the broken English of the police and my half remembered Spanish it appears I should get a fine in the post. They have copies of all my docs, fingerprints, parents address etc.

Any idea what sort of fine to expect?
And is it something I have to declare on things like job interviews? Last thing I want is a stupid 3 quid multitool to give me a firearms conviction.

Tom1312

1,015 posts

145 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
I wouldn't say they are legal in the UK.

It'd be a prohibited article?

I would t worry about it, sounds like you signed a disclaimer and it'll get destroyed and you'll never hear anything about it ever again.

wack

2,103 posts

205 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
Can't help but I have made a mental note to remove mine from my wallet before travelling anywhere.

Tell them we're not in the EU any more so they can fk off

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
I hope I never hear anything more about it. And I genuinely don't think they're in any way prohibited here. Openly sold, not some sort of Walt survivalist st but a little thing in case you need a little screwdriver or something to open a plastic packet.

But yeah. Be super cautious, just in case.

eltawater

3,107 posts

178 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
I'm hazarding a guess it's one of these:

http://www.red5.co.uk/10-in-1-credit-card-multitoo...

I also have one in my wallet, it was bought for me as a gift from a high street gadget shop and is available in others such as Waterstones.

The "blade" is just over an inch long. The other serrated edge is 2 inches long.

How does this qualify as a prohibited article in the UK?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
That is exactly what it was. Thanks. I was just searching for an amazon link.

Tom1312

1,015 posts

145 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
My mistake!

When I searched I got something very different.



Is a prohibited weapon in the UK as its technically disguised.

What the other user has posted would be absolutely fine here.

As I said, I doubt you'll ever hear anything about it again.

eltawater

3,107 posts

178 months

Saturday 25th June 2016
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
That is exactly what it was. Thanks. I was just searching for an amazon link.
Amazon:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Wallet-Multi-function-Poc...

Waterstones:
https://www.waterstones.com/product/10-in-1-credit...

Go Outdoors:
http://www.gooutdoors.co.uk/boyz-toys-credit-card-...


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Tom1312 said:
My mistake!

When I searched I got something very different.



Is a prohibited weapon in the UK as its technically disguised.

What the other user has posted would be absolutely fine here.

As I said, I doubt you'll ever hear anything about it again.
That looks... Interesting. Very flimsy though, no?

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
Victorinox do a Swiss army style credit card with a knife held within the card. Would that also be prohibited, as the blade is technically hidden? (serious question)

Gareth79

7,628 posts

245 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
I'd have thought you would need to argue it's not a disguised weapon because it's that shape for convenience, not because it is designed to conceal the blade within a wallet. Disguised weapons are usually blades concealed in belt buckles, walking canes, pens etc. You do have a problem that with the wallet and blade combined the blade is concealed such that you'd need to examine it in quite some detail.

I did a quick search and only found one news article where somebody was convicted of carrying one - but it was with other items and they did plead guilty:
http://www.nottinghampost.com/teenager-headed-part...


anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
'Prohibited weapon' is a phrase used in firearms legislation.

'Offensive weapon' / 'bladed or pointed article' are the ones used for this type of thing.

The 'bladed article' legalisation is very wide and the above tools fit within it: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapo...

A folding pocket knife with a cutting edge of 7.62 cm (3 inches) or less is legal.

spookly

4,011 posts

94 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
La Liga said:
'Prohibited weapon' is a phrase used in firearms legislation.

'Offensive weapon' / 'bladed or pointed article' are the ones used for this type of thing.

The 'bladed article' legalisation is very wide and the above tools fit within it: http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/l_to_o/offensive_weapo...

A folding pocket knife with a cutting edge of 7.62 cm (3 inches) or less is legal.
'Legal' probably isn't the best description as whether it is legal to have a particular blade in your possession is entirely dependant on circumstances.

There are a range of completely banned knives, which cannot be sold or carried. Those could probably described as illegal.

But any other knife could be legal depending on you having a good excuse for having it with you.

Any folding blade which is non-locking and 3inches or less can be freely carried with no restrictions..... although I suspect you could still fall foul of the law with one of these if you had previous form with getting stabby/slashy with someone. A teenager from around these parts was sent down for a while after being caught carrying a 3 inch pen knife, he had previous for stabbing someone and no good excuse for carrying it.

Starfighter

4,908 posts

177 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
UK legislation doesn't matter here, the OP was in Portugal at the time.

Bristol spark

4,381 posts

182 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
spookly said:
But any other knife could be legal depending on you having a good excuse for having it with you.
I bizarrely got told off by an officer a few weeks ago for having a 6" jab saw hanging out my back pocket, while walking down a high street!

I was working in one of the shops, and needed something from my van.

I guess it depends on the interpretation of "good reason"


Not that uk law has any relevance to the op's case!



Edited by Bristol spark on Sunday 26th June 09:12

JMGS4

8,734 posts

269 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
It's a prohibited weapon in CAA/FAA rules IMHO, so no redress! Certainly in CH airports they keep a very tight watch for these!

anonymous-user

Original Poster:

53 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
I'm not arguing the legality of the Portuguese action, I'm sure if they say it's illegal then it's illegal.

But is it a declarable conviction here, and is the fine gonna be an abuse of my sphincter?

Jim1556

1,771 posts

155 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
wack said:
Tell them we're not in the EU any more so they can fk off
Stupidest thing I've seen today, since reading some idiotically racist comments on facebook like 'Send them back!' banghead

Fozziebear

1,840 posts

139 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
Tom1312 said:
My mistake!

When I searched I got something very different.



Is a prohibited weapon in the UK as its technically disguised.

What the other user has posted would be absolutely fine here.

As I said, I doubt you'll ever hear anything about it again.
That looks... Interesting. Very flimsy though, no?
They come in plastic, steel or titanium. The plastic version is sharp metal blade but I wouldn't be confident in its strength. Lots of Chinese knock offs on the web

Sheepshanks

32,538 posts

118 months

Sunday 26th June 2016
quotequote all
OpulentBob said:
Perfectly legal here, it's been in there for years and has flown with me to India, America, everywhere, no problem.
I think "perfectly legal here" is open to debate but I'm amazed you've been through security multiple times here and abroad and either it hasn't been picked up or they're happy to let it go.

I always double check I don't have my metal pen with me when flying!