Speeding Charge (Scotland) - What To Do Next?

Speeding Charge (Scotland) - What To Do Next?

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Discussion

M3Driver

Original Poster:

171 posts

163 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
I was pulled over by an unmarked (I presume) traffic car the other day and the officer showed me a speed gun device with an LCD screen that said 93 on it, told me I'd been doing 93mph in a 70mph limit and that I would receive 3 points and a £100 fine.

He asked for my details, wrote them all down, PNC-checked car and insurance etc., then explained what I had to do with my licence and payment etc. and asked if I had any comments...

I didn't really have much time to think, and just "Do I have any option in all this?" and he said "no", so I took the ticket and that was that.

Afterwards, I'm starting to think, I've heard of people getting off on technicalities where the speed recording equipment hadn't been calibrated properly that day, or some other sort of thing.

My question now is, is it worth trying to contact somebody and asking for calibration records for the equipment used before I accept the charge and pay the fine etc.? If so, who would I ask for this?

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
M3Driver said:
I was pulled over by an unmarked (I presume) traffic car the other day and the officer showed me a speed gun device with an LCD screen that said 93 on it, told me I'd been doing 93mph in a 70mph limit and that I would receive 3 points and a £100 fine.

He asked for my details, wrote them all down, PNC-checked car and insurance etc., then explained what I had to do with my licence and payment etc. and asked if I had any comments...

I didn't really have much time to think, and just "Do I have any option in all this?" and he said "no", so I took the ticket and that was that.

Afterwards, I'm starting to think, I've heard of people getting off on technicalities where the speed recording equipment hadn't been calibrated properly that day, or some other sort of thing.

My question now is, is it worth trying to contact somebody and asking for calibration records for the equipment used before I accept the charge and pay the fine etc.? If so, who would I ask for this?
Yes, there are all sorts of urban myths about what you can do when you plead not guilty, and do a full-fat Perry Mason.

Most of them are complete bks, and far more expensive - as well as a LOT more time, effort and blood pressure - than just admitting you were bang to rights, taking the FPN, and learning a lesson.

93 in Scotland? You're probably not a million miles from it being upgraded from speeding to dangerous.

R E S T E C P

660 posts

104 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Were you speeding or not?

You can go to court and fight it. You'll get absolutely shafted though unless you have evidence you weren't speeding (even then it's a painful process). They'll make an example of you so other people who were blatantly speeding don't try to "get off on technicalities".

If you desperately don't want 3 points and fine, I think the going rate for a motoring lawyer is around £3k and in my experience they have an excellent chance of either getting you off or reducing the penalty. I don't think they do anything that amazing - but they are given a much easier ride in court.

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
93 in Scotland? You're probably not a million miles from it being upgraded from speeding to dangerous.
Please stop posting rubbish. rolleyes

Cat

JumboBeef

3,772 posts

176 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Were you doing 93 or thereabouts? If so, take it on the chin.

Take the 3 points, £100 fine. And then move on with life.

EU_Foreigner

2,833 posts

225 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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I would be annoyed if it was 78, but with 93 you got good value out of the 3 points.

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
TooMany2cvs said:
93 in Scotland? You're probably not a million miles from it being upgraded from speeding to dangerous.
Please stop posting rubbish. rolleyes
So what sort of figure IS the point at which the charge gets upgraded? Or are you denying that very high speeds are routinely upgraded in Scotland?

redback911

2,702 posts

265 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
Not too bad, 3-points is a let off in soon-to-be-independent Scotland. I was caught doing 71 in 50 (on the A1M and 500m past the national speed limit signs) and received 5-points, which also required a visit to see the sheriff. Add the fine and solicitor fees and it cost £1500 in total.

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
So what sort of figure IS the point at which the charge gets upgraded? Or are you denying that very high speeds are routinely upgraded in Scotland?
There is NO figure where a speed, routinely or otherwise, becomes a charge of dangerous driving. Whether or not a particular speed amounts to dangerous driving is entirely dependent on the circumstances.

Cat

Edited by Cat on Monday 27th June 19:31

MrOrange

2,031 posts

252 months

Monday 27th June 2016
quotequote all
R E S T E C P said:
I think the going rate for a motoring lawyer is around £3k and in my experience they have an excellent chance of either getting you off or reducing the penalty. I don't think they do anything that amazing - but they are given a much easier ride in court.
Seems pricey to me. I've used a great motoring lawyer a couple of times in the last decade, one excellent result and one not so good. Cost was under a grand each time - good value IMHO.

Would I use them for a FPN? Hell, no. Pay the money and take the points.

roofer

5,136 posts

210 months

Monday 27th June 2016
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EU_Foreigner said:
I would be annoyed if it was 78, but with 93 you got good value out of the 3 points.
Agreed.

Jim1556

1,771 posts

155 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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Cat said:
There is NO figure where a speed, routinely or otherwise, becomes a charge of dangerous driving. Whether or not a particular speed amounts to dangerous driving is entirely dependent on the circumstances.

Cat
I'm sure I read on here that anything above 110mph automatically becomes a dangerous driving charge in Scotland?

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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Jim1556 said:
I'm sure I read on here that anything above 110mph automatically becomes a dangerous driving charge in Scotland?
You might have read it but that doesn't make it correct. Plenty of posters keep repeating the same nonsense that anything above x mph in Scotland is automatically dangerous driving. The simple fact of it is there is no magic speed at which speeding automatically gets treated as dangerous driving.

Cat

TooMany2cvs

29,008 posts

125 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
The simple fact of it is there is no magic speed at which speeding automatically gets treated as dangerous driving.
But, in Scotland, a speed considerably over the limit IS likely to be charged as dangerous driving, rather than just speeding, in a way that wouldn't happen elsewhere in the country...?

bomma220

14,454 posts

124 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
Cat said:
The simple fact of it is there is no magic speed at which speeding automatically gets treated as dangerous driving.
But, in Scotland, a speed considerably over the limit IS likely to be charged as dangerous driving, rather than just speeding, in a way that wouldn't happen elsewhere in the country...?
So why was he not reported for dangerous driving when he was stopped? Or when does the mythical 'upgrade' to dangerous driving suddenly materialise?

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
TooMany2cvs said:
But, in Scotland, a speed considerably over the limit IS likely to be charged as dangerous driving, rather than just speeding, in a way that wouldn't happen elsewhere in the country...?
You tell me? You said that the OP probably wasn't a million miles away from the offence being upgraded to dangerous driving - so at what speed would that have happened and why?

Cat

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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Haven't the courts up there deliberated that very question?

IANAL, however if I were into 3 figure speeds and reported for dangerous driving, I wouldn't like to be up against the Scottish case authorities.

So the answer to a question "where is the line in Scotland?", is possibly down to, once above 100mph or so, whether the officer/PF put that charge to the courts.

Would I risk it, on the whim of those dealing with the offence, considering the difference in penalties? Nope!

Cat

3,017 posts

268 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
janesmith1950 said:
So the answer to a question "where is the line in Scotland?", is possibly down to, once above 100mph or so, whether the officer/PF put that charge to the courts.
Just about any speed could see you charged with dangerous driving depending on the circumstances. The further above the limit you are the more likely it is that, for a given set of circumstances, your conduct could be considered to have fallen far below that of a competent and careful driver.

The list below is from this article. There is no mention that any of those offences were dealt with as anything other than speeding. The same story was repeated in many of the papers and none of them mentioned dangerous driving charges. If the suggestion that high speeds are routinely dealt with as dangerous driving is correct then why is there no mention that any of these cases were?

The 20 worst speeding offences in Scotland last year

129mph on the A90 Dundee-Aberdeen Road in Angus.
127mph on the A9 Perth-Inverness Road at Moulinearn, Perth and Kinross.
125mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle Road.
123mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle Road at Kirkpatrick Fleming.
122mph on the A90 Dundee-Aberdeen road, near Stonehaven.
121mph on the Aberdeen-Dundee Road at Haughs of Finavon Farm, Angus.
121mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle road near Lockerbie.
120mph on the A9 Perth-Inverness Road at Moulinearn.
120mph on the Dundee-Aberdeen Road at Waterston Road, Angus.
119mph on the M80 at Dunipace.
117mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle road at Ecclefechan.
117mph on the Dundee-Aberdeen road at Waterston Road.
116mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle Road at Lockerbie.
116mph on the Aberdeen-Dundee Road at Inveraldie, Angus.
116mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle Road at Kirkpatrick Fleming.
115mph on the A1 in East Lothian.
115mph on the Glasgow -Carlisle road at Kirkpatrick Fleming.
115mph on the M74 at Abington.
114mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle road at Ecclefechan.
113mph on the Glasgow-Carlisle road at Beattock.

Cat

jamiem555

750 posts

210 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
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I was charged with dangerous driving for 105.4 mph on the M74 northbound. Not a pleasant experience I wish to repeat. I did plead not guilty and had the charge reduced to careless on the day of court. I walked out with a large fine and 8 points. I already had 3 from being caught 6 months earlier.

anonymous-user

53 months

Tuesday 28th June 2016
quotequote all
Cat said:
Just about any speed could see you charged with dangerous driving depending on the circumstances.
You are of course entirely right. However the point should be made that those circumstances have been considered differently by the respective courts in England and Scotland. Those differing positions alter your prospects of being charged with dangerous driving and being able to defend it, north of the border.